FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 44 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 14
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 4
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
Today at 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432455 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#359100 - 08/30/07 03:34 PM Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pound?
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pound, IYO?

Though the years of watching and doing alittle myself, I'd have to say out of all the guys I've seen it would have to be. Benny "The Jet" Urquidez 58-0-0 He was beating Thai & Japanese boxers at their own game when not many could beat them in gloves. Fighting anyway they wanted.
I know this goes back pretty far but even now not many fighters today have a working arsenal like the Jet.

The Jet threw everything at ya, but the kitchen sink he could and did KO with his powerful hands and legs. One of his most powerful kick was a jump spin back kick, to the head or torso.

Most of the fighters todays play it pretty safe mostly, push kick, crocodile kick, elbow, knees and hands. Rarely anything else thats been trained and scores.

Bill Wallace and Pete Cunningham may have been more popular but they were not the finisher nor the effective technicain Benny the Jet was.

Thats my 2 cent.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#359101 - 08/31/07 03:07 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pound? [Re: Neko456]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Kickboxing? Classical kickboxing, it would be Benny first, Wallace second.

Wallace was amazing in that he used 1 friggin' leg throughout his career.

Benny was beating people because he was one of the few back in those days that had quick instincts and knew the game so well beforehand. He was good at preparing before a match.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#359102 - 08/31/07 04:38 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pound? [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I have to say that one of the best currently has to be Buakaw Por Paramuk (sp?). He is a MT fighter who has switched and thrives in the K1 kickboxing environment. These are open weight class tournaments, and he is often giving away in excess of 40lbs and over a foot in height, yet he still manages to win or place in the top 4 everytime he competes. Always an exciting and aggressive fighter to watch.

I am not sure how to rate 'all time great' kickboxers. it is still such a young sport, and there are so many differences in the rules from federation to federation that comparison of performance and records is redundant.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#359103 - 08/31/07 06:36 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Cord]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
When I think of kickboxing, I tend to think in terms of muay Thai or international rules. Guys like Ramon Dekker, Rob Kaman, and Petey Cunningham come more immediately to mind for me.



-John

Top
#359104 - 08/31/07 08:24 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Well, if we're talking about classical kickboxing, my previous post still holds true.

But if we're talking about MT style kickboxing, then Buakaw is ONE of the best, not the best.

Ramon Dekker is kind of cool, but I've never been a fan of his style per say.

Peter Aerth is nice to watch, so was CroCop before he left for the MMA scene.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#359105 - 08/31/07 10:53 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
And Crocop was knocked into OBLIVION by Gonzaga! Imagine how good Gonzaga must be. He's a freakin' monster for sure though, I'll say that much.

(and Couture owned him)


-John

Top
#359106 - 09/01/07 08:55 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Agreed with Taison. Benny FTW, as far as classical kickboxing.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#359107 - 09/01/07 06:17 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I like Benny Urquidez as well. He has a phenomenol record, he has strong hands and feet, and his spinning back kick is sublime. I also managed to dig up this video from Youtube, look at the sick throw at the end, it was illegal, but hey, it was good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTPvsqpIgc

Top
#359108 - 09/01/07 07:02 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Supremor]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Wow! Great find, Freddie. Bennie's timing and distancing are exceptional. Man, I felt that spinning back kick!

And that was a nice throw at the end - not sure why he did it, but he did it well.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#359109 - 09/02/07 04:19 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

But if we're talking about MT style kickboxing, then Buakaw is ONE of the best, not the best.




The reason I mentioned him, is not as the best MT fighter (thats got to be Sagat), but rather, he has adapted to, and excelled in K1 rules kickboxing. Being able to be a top level MT guy, and then still excelling when not allowed to use clinch, sweep or his elbows I think marks his adaptability and 'pure' striking ability above many who have made the transition with less success.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#359110 - 09/08/07 06:48 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Neko456]
Kid_Killerbee Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 7
Quote:

He was beating Thai & Japanese boxers at their own game when not many could beat them in gloves. Fighting anyway they wanted.




Maybe you need to check this out:

Quote:

Urquidez fought in three bouts which were eventually ruled no-contest (NC). The first, in Los Angeles in March 1977, was a nine-round NC (WKA) against Thai boxer Narongnoi Kiatbandit. The second and most controversial fight was against another Thai fighter, Prayuth (sometimes spelled Prayoud) Sittiboonlert in August 1978 in Tokyo, Japan. Japanese and Thai officials state this was a bout and a loss for Urquidez, who had difficulty with the Thai's aggressive knee and clinch strategy. Urquidez and the WKA state it was a no-contest, that there was no weigh-in, and that larger-than-usual gloves were used. Officially, the fight was ruled a six-round NC (KATOGI). Finally, Urquidez fought to a seven-round NC (WKA) against Billy Jackson in Palm Beach, Florida. The no-contest status of these fights has been corroborated in print by Paul Maslak (Chief Administrator of the Star System) [1]. However, recent research has come up with new data which casts a shadow on Urquidez's "undefeated" record. In the November 1984 issue of Official Karate Magazine, on page 45, Paul Maslak in his Star System Ratings (for March 1984) lists Urquidez as the Star System World Super-Lightweight Champion with a record of 56 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw, with 47 wins by knockout, and 14 wins by kick-knockout. Almost a year later in the September 1985 issue of Official Karate (page 44), Urquidez's record is still listed as 56-1-1.




"The Jet" was very good at American style kickboxing, no knees and no kicks below the belt, but he never beat Thai boxers at there own game. What makes it worse, is that after getting beaten by thai fighters in mixed rules matches, he had the matches declared No Contest to protect his pristine records and made [censored] excuses for it. I believe there's one quote by him where he said that Thais don't admit they lost. I give the dude props for dominating a burgeoning, young sport, but he still seem like he was full of BS.

If you want to see why American Kickboxers had problems fighting thai boxers, here's a good video:

rick roufus vs. kitsongrit

and here's another one:
dieselnoi

Top
#359111 - 09/09/07 01:37 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Kid_Killerbee]
Kid_Killerbee Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 7
here's Benny's fight with Sittiboonlert:
benny "the jet" vs. sittiboonlert

Top
#359112 - 09/10/07 12:01 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Kid_Killerbee]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Wow Benny got some crappy low kicks.

My favorite Kickboxer is Andy Hug.

Top
#359113 - 09/10/07 01:08 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Kid_Killerbee]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
On youtude did you see the fight against Chigor <=spl if those weren't knees I don't know what are. Not to mentioned the guy he was fighting was kick during the break and the referee didn't try to stop him. Also the knees that were not knees dropped Benny to the Mat.

But you know what that still didn't stop his opponent from getting Knocked the F%$&^ Out, three times in that same fight it should have been stopped but national pride forced the opponent to take that abuse.

Benny fought in their home town most times, thats asking for a a$$ whipping or to be cheated. But not if you KTFO! Excuse my french.

The Dutch fighter Andy Hug was a verygood fighter a big guy with great flexibility, but not the versility in technique that the Jet had, imho.


Edited by Neko456 (09/10/07 01:20 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#359114 - 09/11/07 12:38 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Neko456]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Andy was from Switzerland.
I just don't see the American Kickboxing fighters from back then being able to fight MT fighters or K1 fighters.

Benny and Superfooot fought a style of fights that resemble Chuck Norris' new fighting league. They dont elbow, lowkick or knee.

Its hard to say if they would do good today or not.

Its like saying could Bruce lee beat Cro Cop.
Different styles different times.

Meliam

Top
#359115 - 09/11/07 01:10 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Meliam]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Could Bruce Lee beat Cro Cop? Maybe everybody else is doing it, looking at his last two fights.

Seriously thats absurb Bruce was a actor & gung-fu instructor he wasn't a prizefighter though he was an innovantive (fighter/thinker/trainners) he was also 158lbs soaking wet, Cro cop is a 200+ lb fighter.

Your point being Old vs. New, my point is that Benny was so ahead of his times, at his peak he could compete even now and win. Comparing Benny with Wallace is like comparing a Jet to a Car with a flat.

Bill Wallace was a limited fighter that had a good left hook and left leg, he was not in the same category as the Jet in versitility and effective hand & legs combinations.

Granted that Benny beat most Japanese Muay Thai fighters but there were a couple Thai fighters that he dropped. Most of his matched as I mentioned were not base on USA PKA rules as was Wallaces PKA MW crown. Benny fought in their home town by their rules with bias referees. And still gathered a 57-3-0 (counting his draws or NC) record.
Where did you get that they didn't allow knees and low line kicks look at the fight on Youtube knees and low kicks and they still got KTFO!

Theres several modern or recently retired Kickboxers that would tell you the same. Benny could kick their butt, today.
This is just MO as you have expressed yours, but no low kicks and no knees where did you get that from.


Edited by Neko456 (09/11/07 01:14 PM)

Top
#359116 - 09/11/07 09:48 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Neko456]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
I Have only seen Benny fight American Kickboxing rules.
And they have no low kicks.

And the Bruce lee Cro Cop example was just to pick a martial artist from the past and one from the present.

And Bruce was a martial artist that turned into acting, not an actor that learned Kung Fu. I agree he was not a tournament fighter and he was a light weight. I was just saying that the comparison between martial artist from the past and now is hard.

Meliam

Top
#359117 - 09/12/07 11:29 AM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Meliam]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Quote:

I Have only seen Benny fight American Kickboxing rules. And they have no low kicks.

And the Bruce lee Cro Cop example was just to pick a martial artist from the past and one from the present.


And Bruce was a martial artist that turned into acting, not an actor that learned Kung Fu.





===========================================================
Then you have not really seen Benny fight most of his matches were in Asia. Thats why we differ, Youtube and see for yourself.

I understood that but I was making sure that you knew that was not a probably situation, not to mention that Sifu Lee is dead.

I stated actor & a Gung-fu Instructor, it had no reference to chornological order but for what he was most popular for, outside the realms of martial art.

You debate from limited data and mute issues, but your opinions are valid because they are yours.


Edited by Neko456 (09/12/07 11:31 AM)

Top
#359118 - 09/14/07 04:51 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Neko456]
Kid_Killerbee Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 7
Quote:

On youtude did you see the fight against Chigor <=spl if those weren't knees I don't know what are. Not to mentioned the guy he was fighting was kick during the break and the referee didn't try to stop him. Also the knees that were not knees dropped Benny to the Mat.

But you know what that still didn't stop his opponent from getting Knocked the F%$&^ Out, three times in that same fight it should have been stopped but national pride forced the opponent to take that abuse.

Benny fought in their home town most times, thats asking for a a$$ whipping or to be cheated. But not if you KTFO! Excuse my french.

The Dutch fighter Andy Hug was a verygood fighter a big guy with great flexibility, but not the versility in technique that the Jet had, imho.




First thing, i tried to search for this chigor fight on youtube and nothing turns up. You'll have to post it.

Secondly, you accuse the people officiating at these fights of cheating without any evidence. I know that cheating happens often, hometown advantage and all that, but it's not an assumption you can make. It has to be proven. Plus, Benny was beaten by Sittiboonlert in Japan in a match officiated at by Japanese judges. Why the hell would the Japanese judges give a Thai hometown advantage over an American fighter. The only other fight I know of with Benny vs. a thai boxer was also ruled a NC and it was held in Los Angeles.

Yeah, Benny beat plenty of Japanese fighters in Kickboxing(WKA) rules but I've never heard of him beating a thai in fully muay thai rules. The japanese weren't muay thai fighters but kickboxers, many with kyokushin karate backgrounds. The only muay thai match that he was in that i know of was against a Dutch fighter.

Benny was undeniably good at Kickboxing, but he cannot be considered the p4p greatest kickboxer. Even if he had a truly undefeated record, it doesn't make you the greatest p4p. Rocky Marciano is the only pro boxer with an undefeated record and he's not considered the p4p greatest boxer. Benny could beat the Japanese because he could get inside of their range and use his better boxing. But with the Thais, he just got sucked into the clinch and chewed up with powerful knees. It doesn't make him a bad fighter, it just meant he had weaknesses in his game.

Top
#359119 - 10/18/07 12:36 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: Kid_Killerbee]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Guys

Sorry to resurrect a month+ old thread but I thought Stan "The Man" Longinidis deserved a mention on this thread.

Ok I'm a little bias as I'm an Aussie but 8 world titles speak for themselves (various rules).

KICK World Super Heavyweight Full Contact Champion 1990
WKA World Junior Heavyweight Champion 1991
WKA World Super Heavyweight Champion 1992
ISKA World Heavyweight Champion (Oriental Rules) 1992
ISKA World Heavyweight Champion (Freestyle Rules) 1993
WAKO World Super Heavyweight Champion 1994
WMTC World Heavyweight Champion 1996
WKBF World Heavyweight Champion 1998

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps5dPmOQegk

He had a huge impact on Australian Kickboxing


On another note, regardless of the controversy of Benny "The Jets" undefeated record he has to go down as one of the sports greatest.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#359120 - 10/18/07 01:05 PM Re: Who was or is the best Kickboxer pound for pou [Re: drgndrew]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Stan was a bad boy and so was Andy Hug, two of my favorites but Benny is indeed the man. Longest reigning champion of any sport.

I had respect for Don "The Dragon" Wilson too. His conditioning was phenominal.
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Taison 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga