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#358791 - 08/28/07 03:34 PM Poll on Strength training
Burnsie Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Canada, eh!
I apologize in advance if this is a repeat poll...but how many martial artists here actively use strength training to supplement their martial arts conditioning? This could be weights or other functional strength training outside the dojo/dojang/club, etc.

I personally believe that it's a very effective method of training, and if done properly can make you a better martial artist. Many others (like many of the black belts in my dojo, including the instructors) think it makes people slow.

What about every pro-level sport out there? i.e. Football/soccer, american football, track and field, hockey, basketball - they all use strength training to make them better, stronger and faster - why would martial arts be any different?

(And I posted it here, since those that don't beleive in strength training probably don't spend much time on that board)
Do you use strength training
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 08/28/07 03:31 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
What is your opinion on strength training
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 08/28/07 03:31 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

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#358792 - 08/28/07 03:51 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Burnsie]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
OK everyone, there are no prizes for guessing my votes
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#358793 - 08/28/07 04:42 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Burnsie]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I regularly use strength training, and I consider it an integral part of my martial arts training.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#358794 - 08/28/07 05:11 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
ditto. I feel that squatting and deadlifting have not only made me much stronger, but they have also helped my joints stay healthy after brutalising them playing basketball for many years.

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#358795 - 08/28/07 05:20 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Supremor]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I cast the first vote saying strength training was NOT an integral part of martial arts. While it's beneficial to your health, and - all other factors aside, bet on the strongest one in the fight - if you rely on strength you're not doing it right. Focus should be on technique.
_________________________

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#358796 - 08/28/07 07:36 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Ironfoot]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Ironfoot, I don't think its a reliance on strength, just understanding how developing physical attributes increases the effectiveness of technique. The stronger you are physically the more powerful your techniques are. Why do you think men generally have more powerful techniques than women? Its not because men focus more on technique, its the biological difference in strength between men and women. The same is true about any other physical attributes. Strength is not just things like power lifting, but also explosive strength training. Its surprising, I thought all martial artists wanted to develop explosive strength which in turn develops explosive power in their techniques. Without such training, it will be very difficult to develop effective technique.

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#358797 - 08/28/07 08:25 PM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Ironfoot]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I think it's more a matter of learning to relax than "doing it with strength". I do strength training all the time, but my aikido and aiki-jujutsu is "soft and floppy", but very powerful.

If you don't do strength training, you're liable to injure yourself doing techniques when you get a little over-extended, so it's an important part of being a "whole" martial artist. Throwing somebody heavy isn't always a matter of "flow", but sometimes "helping" them over the hump to be thrown, and I've seen lots of Aikidoka and jujutsu players stopped cold by somebody that could muscle them, so when you need muscle to help, you have to have it or eat your technique. That isn't "muscling" it, but having the strength to complete your movment.

While I agree that correct movement, off-balancing, and execution are the way to go, a little additional strength is always good in helping you have more energy to go longer if the fight is prolonged. When I was doing karate all the time, we did 3-minute rounds, and then stepped them up to 5 and 7 minute rounds. Training for 3 minutes was LOTS easier... and 7 minutes can seem like eternity if you don't do strength training.

It's not the way to do technique, it's a way to "continue" doing technique and to "assist" it if necessary.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#358798 - 08/29/07 02:50 AM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: wristtwister]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I think it's more a matter of learning to relax than "doing it with strength". I do strength training all the time, but my aikido and aiki-jujutsu is "soft and floppy", but very powerful.

If you don't do strength training, you're liable to injure yourself doing techniques when you get a little over-extended, so it's an important part of being a "whole" martial artist. Throwing somebody heavy isn't always a matter of "flow", but sometimes "helping" them over the hump to be thrown, and I've seen lots of Aikidoka and jujutsu players stopped cold by somebody that could muscle them, so when you need muscle to help, you have to have it or eat your technique. That isn't "muscling" it, but having the strength to complete your movment.

While I agree that correct movement, off-balancing, and execution are the way to go, a little additional strength is always good in helping you have more energy to go longer if the fight is prolonged. When I was doing karate all the time, we did 3-minute rounds, and then stepped them up to 5 and 7 minute rounds. Training for 3 minutes was LOTS easier... and 7 minutes can seem like eternity if you don't do strength training.

It's not the way to do technique, it's a way to "continue" doing technique and to "assist" it if necessary.






That is a very well written post so many who do not put much stock in strength conditioning somehow believe that building strength will be at the expense of their technical ability in MA, its not the case; all it gives you is greater raw resources to apply in your techniques.
If you have two equally skillful professional racing drivers go head to head, the one with the better specified car will win. same in MA. Skill vs Skill + superior conditioning is a no brainer IMO
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#358799 - 08/29/07 06:19 AM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Cord]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I agree. Strength isn't a substitute for technique but it can FUEL technique.

I am a believer in strength and conditioning, although I never do any myself, lol. I just show up and train. This has been fine as I've gotten most of my conditioning through boxing and wrestling.

The problem is, without some supplemental strength training, you may set yourself up for injuries that could have been prevented otherwise. I've suffered from shoulder injuries that I believe could have been avoided if I'd just worked a bit more on strength training.

Using strength training however to patch up weak technique or just to try and be stronger than everyone else in a fight is not a good idea imo. Thus I don't train to try and overpower folks. As soon as you encounter the one guy just as big and strong as you are with better technique, you're screwed.

Overall, strength training is fine for injury prevention and general fitness. Just keep an eye on how you use your strength when training, particularly in grappling arts.


-John

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#358800 - 08/29/07 06:22 AM Re: Poll on Strength training [Re: Cord]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I watched a number of MMA bouts on television last night. Everybody in the matches was a "prime conditioned" athlete. The three knockouts I remember seeing were by the guys with the best technique, but the bouts kept going because they were "in shape"... often won after the winner survived the initial onslaught of the other, and went on to knock out their opponent. Clearly, their strength kept them in the game. It didn't replace their technique, but it sure kept them standing up and in the game.

Too many people that don't employ strength training think that they won't get hit in a fight... or that their "superior technique" will instantly overcome their opponent. 45 years on the mats tells me different...

Some people's moment is when they find out the other guy is trying to knock them out...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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