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#358049 - 09/30/07 03:54 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Just an example: A friend approaches you & congratulates you on your son's selection as Valadictorian. What is your response?

(answer to follow) >>

Still waiting for your answer.

However, my answer would be to smile in appreciation that my friend had noticed and cared enough to make the compliment. Then I would say something like,"Thank you kindly. But you should know he was not selected. He earned it."

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#358050 - 09/30/07 07:43 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

Aaaah, the virtues of youth...light in life experiences but heavy in opinions. Maybe you'll understand in 20 yrs.

BTW, if you really understood [...]




You know what I find really funny? For all your diatribe about being the wise old man who is lowering himself to the level of the dumb youths who don't know a thing, I never said I disagreed with your point. You're tripping over yourself telling me I don't have the experience and deep insight to understand your logic, yet you don't seem to have a damn clue that I agree with much of what you say but find the way you say it distasteful and insulting.

Main Entry: con·de·scend
Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level : UNBEND b : to waive the privileges of rank
2 : to assume an air of superiority

I hope you'll think about this, but I know that they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Good day.

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#358051 - 09/30/07 07:50 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: iaibear]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
See this is why condescencion is a bad way to make a point. After awhile, your intended audience stops listening to the points you are trying to make.

We as a community are not here to be lectured by you or anyone else. You are of course free to take on a lecturing tone and be as condescending and even as rude as you like, so long as you don't run afoul of the forum rules. The forum readers are of course free to ignore you or list their own counter observations and arguements.

If you are genuinely interested in changing opinions and spreading information, you would be well advised to do so in a more diplomatic manner.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#358052 - 09/30/07 08:17 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
chingei Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

Aaaah, the virtues of youth...light in life experiences but heavy in opinions.

Maybe you'll understand in 20 yrs.

BTW, if you really understood, the subject centered around a non-Japanese considering doing something I believed would be in poor taste or uninformed. I would have done the same if a Japanese proposed doing something that had the same conotation in America.

So it's not a simple issue of contradiction (although on the surface it might appear so). If you were able to see deeper, you'd see this. My general comment about Americans because I was addressing Americans. My personal experiences regarding were specific. I noted that you train in a traditional JSA dojo. I wonder if you had any discussions w/ your Japanese Sensei. Just ask.

Ask what Japanese may feel about a Gaijin adopting a kamon for personal reasons.

Ask his feelings regarding the bastardization of ttraditional JSA.

Ask him if Americans/Europeans have difficulty understanding Japanese culture/mind/soul.

You think you have it all together & any opinion that upsets your view of the world is condescending. (and yes, I meant that sentence to be condescending). Grow up & don't get your feelings hurt so much. (that was condescending too)

Have a good one.




LOL! This attitude is so over the top that it almost seems intentionally comical.

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#358053 - 09/30/07 08:41 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: chingei]
Borrek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Am I the only one seeing the major irony of people getting bent out of shape by someone who is culturally defensive in a thread about defense of cultural usurping? Maybe the topic at hand means more to Japanese than even those of us who tread lightly understand.

In a clash of patriotic pride, who wins in the end? The one who stops talking and listens...

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#358054 - 09/30/07 09:24 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Borrek]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
Quote:

Am I the only one seeing the major irony of people getting bent out of shape by someone who is culturally defensive in a thread about defense of cultural usurping? Maybe the topic at hand means more to Japanese than even those of us who tread lightly understand.

In a clash of patriotic pride, who wins in the end? The one who stops talking and listens...




Wise words... I guess I lost

Quote:


Aaaah, the virtues of youth...light in life experiences but heavy in opinions.

Maybe you'll understand in 20 yrs.

BTW, if you really understood, the subject centered around a non-Japanese considering doing something I believed would be in poor taste or uninformed. I would have done the same if a Japanese proposed doing something that had the same conotation in America.

So it's not a simple issue of contradiction (although on the surface it might appear so). If you were able to see deeper, you'd see this. My general comment about Americans because I was addressing Americans. My personal experiences regarding were specific. I noted that you train in a traditional JSA dojo. I wonder if you had any discussions w/ your Japanese Sensei. Just ask.

Ask what Japanese may feel about a Gaijin adopting a kamon for personal reasons.

Ask his feelings regarding the bastardization of ttraditional JSA.

Ask him if Americans/Europeans have difficulty understanding Japanese culture/mind/soul.

You think you have it all together & any opinion that upsets your view of the world is condescending. (and yes, I meant that sentence to be condescending). Grow up & don't get your feelings hurt so much. (that was condescending too)





You should really take your own advise...

in fact, you really haven't defended any of your previous statements. you just said im young and dont understand yet. Well, other people here are older and more experienced than I and they think your self-contradicting and arrogant as well. So I am young, I admit it, dont take my advice... I mostly ask questions anyway. But you cant ignore the fact that EVERYONE disagrees with you. And you cant play the "im the old guy so i am wiser than you" card on everyone. The fact still remains that you made a beef-headed comment about Americans in general, are in fact wrong in doing so, and refused to admit any fallacy.

My conversation stopped being about the komon, and gaijin acceptance in Japan today. I am simply offended at the blunt generalizations you make about all Americans. And after you stopped refusing that you said anything condescending, you told everyone to just get over it. You tell everyone else that they need to learn more and yet your the only one who is not willing to listen to anyone else...

As I stated earlier though, and as Borrek stated, this conversation is going nowhere. More so, its rather childish and I should not have contributed as much as I did. On that note, feel free to reply but, since psychodave has made his decision, I am finished with this thread and will read but no longer post any more rebuttal.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

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#358055 - 09/30/07 10:51 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: fatguy]
chingei Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 61
I'm afraid I agree with several aspects of both sides of this little donnybrook.

1) the usurpation of a family's crest is something to give careful consideration to at the very least.

2) the blanket denoucements of American culture and history were short-sighted and indicated a poor understanding of what culture is and how modern history has unfolded

3) the "I'm the only human being with experience and the rest of y'all need to grow up and keep your mouths closed for 20 years!" is just silly and self-effacing in its effect if not its intention.

So...

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#358056 - 10/01/07 01:40 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
Emily_Egan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Friendswood, TX
Quote:

...
Just an example: A friend approaches you & congratulates you on your son's selection as Valadictorian. What is your response?





Based on what I have read and observed, I think the proper Japanese response would be to first emphatically deny the compliment, possibly pointing out some flaw in the person being complimented, then express gratitude for the thought.


Edited by Emily_Egan (10/01/07 01:43 AM)

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#358057 - 10/01/07 03:53 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Emily_Egan]
chingei Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 61
LOL! That sounds about right!

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#358058 - 10/01/07 12:00 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Emily_Egan]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Thank-you, Iaibear for playing along & the prize goes to Emily for the correct answer.

This is a very good example of cultural differences - not a question of wrong vs right. My point throughout was & is that any action can be interpreted in many ways & that consideration should be given to the people/cultural the action is impacting. This can be as simple as taking a mon to international diplomacy.

Somehow, my pointing out that Americans (I know, a wide generalization) tend to see things less from an international perspective & more from a national perspective bent some members out of shape. I speak from my experience as we all do. I've been in 7 foreign countries, not as a tourist but w/ family/friends so I was privy to local talk & opinions. When gross generalizations about Americans run contrary to the norm, I speak up & educate them as well.

Did I go over the top in my last thread? Yes, & for that I apologise to the members as a whole. But I'm not running away, making excuses or retracting my comments. I don't understand why a few let it get personal.

owari

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