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#358019 - 09/24/07 12:21 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: PsychoDave]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
So...PsychoDave, it's been nearly a month since you last posted. What did you decide? If you adopted a mon, how did you make your decision?

(or did you simply disappear because you got opinions that conflicted w/ yours)

*not a personal dig but it happens a lot here.

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#358020 - 09/24/07 11:09 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
Quote:

Americans have a habit of doing any damn thing they want, often disregarding the others' feelings/opinions. This is not a Japanese trait - much the opposite. That's why it doesn't make sense..."it's just a logo" attitude cheapens & dismisses the heritage & ansestors that built the family/clan. You, as potential mon-usurpers don't need to understand all the intricacies, just that it's not proper & to respect the cultural value.





Although I am sure you meant as little harm from this statement as possible, I still am rather offended. And I won't go into any back and forth bickering, but every culture as their bad apples; and as your encounter with Americans may have been unfortunate there is still a sense of honor in most Americans today. So, please, keep what you say impersonal.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

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#358021 - 09/24/07 11:49 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: fatguy]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I tend to agree. Your comments smack of more than just a little prejudice.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#358022 - 09/25/07 02:19 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Charles Mahan]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I'm a proud American of mixed parentage, raised in Japan & USA.

My statement is a generalization & if it doesn't apply to you, don't be offended. But Americans need to open their eyes...we don't always know best (from a cultural perspective).

If you're offended, imagine Japanese sensibilities being offended when some "Gaijin" tries to play samurai. It's a little ridiculous, a little embarrassing, a little infuriating, a little short-sighted.

So unless you have an ingrained appreciation for Japanese culture & history (& I don't mean you can count to 10 in Japanese during your Krotty lessons), I don't think your opinion carries much weight

owari
_________________________
Ed Ichihara Smith - Shukokai

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#358023 - 09/25/07 04:47 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
Quote:

I'm a proud American of mixed parentage, raised in Japan & USA.

My statement is a generalization & if it doesn't apply to you, don't be offended. But Americans need to open their eyes...we don't always know best (from a cultural perspective).

If you're offended, imagine Japanese sensibilities being offended when some "Gaijin" tries to play samurai. It's a little ridiculous, a little embarrassing, a little infuriating, a little short-sighted.

So unless you have an ingrained appreciation for Japanese culture & history (& I don't mean you can count to 10 in Japanese during your Krotty lessons), I don't think your opinion carries much weight

owari




I understand what you mean about Americans as a whole, as Americans have the opportunity to be self-isolated, many only know English. While in all other countries, everyone knows at least 2 different languages (just for one example). And, being raised in Japan and America I can see how you might feel that your opinion is more valid.

But as for me (and I am sure most of those reading this)my training in the Japanese arts is coupled with extensive research. My problem is that I never learned kanji, which makes things a little more difficult, but google still works a lot and I come on here to ask questions.

And yes there are those people who just want to take a JSA just to "black belt" and don't really care about its history, they just do the kata and tell sensei they really do care. But, I've been to dojo's in the UK, Italy, Greece, and South Korea and there are people like that in all of them. But those guys don't really hang around for very long, they usually quit after a year or so.

And I personally didn't take the JSA because I was interested in Japanese culture and history. Although I am, I can study that without becoming an iaidoka. I started my JSA training because the benefits you receive in this training fits what I want, and I think it is fun to do.

And to say that the Japanese wouldn't do the same if the situations were switched is.... ludicrous.

America is so young that it has a very small history and little culture to take advantage of. In fact, most American culture is taken from other cultures (since Americans stem from other countries.) For this reason, there is too little of culture for anyone to attempt to practice.

One thing that I can say is American is the Automobile. I mean sure, now American cars are not as good as some of their foreign counterparts, but they were invented in America. It can then be construed that cars are an original part of American culture. Since it was better than any other transportation mode, most other countries took the car idea and made their own. I don't know about you but I'm not bitter.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

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#358024 - 09/25/07 05:57 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
chingei Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

I'm a proud American of mixed parentage, raised in Japan & USA.

My statement is a generalization & if it doesn't apply to you, don't be offended. But Americans need to open their eyes...we don't always know best (from a cultural perspective).

If you're offended, imagine Japanese sensibilities being offended when some "Gaijin" tries to play samurai. It's a little ridiculous, a little embarrassing, a little infuriating, a little short-sighted.

So unless you have an ingrained appreciation for Japanese culture & history (& I don't mean you can count to 10 in Japanese during your Krotty lessons), I don't think your opinion carries much weight

owari






Wow, a controversial, but pretty good, post!

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#358025 - 09/25/07 05:59 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: fatguy]
chingei Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 61
Quote:



America is so young that it has a very small history and little culture to take advantage of.






THIS I really, really disagree with.

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#358026 - 09/25/07 04:04 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: chingei]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
(Detour)
When you walk in Vienna, Austria on streets of paving stone that were originally laid by Romans or walking through a temple over 1000 yrs old, you realize how short our history is in the US.

America has a culture unlike all others. It's actually a patchwork of other cultures & sub-cultures. That's why it's impossible to identify an "American culture".

(I'll end here before this turns into a cultural anthrapoplgy dissertation)

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#358027 - 09/25/07 10:48 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

If you're offended, imagine Japanese sensibilities being offended when some "Gaijin" tries to play samurai. It's a little ridiculous, a little embarrassing, a little infuriating, a little short-sighted.




Would you care to explain these comments a bit. Sounds to me like you are implying that only real Japanese people can dare train in real Japanese Martial Arts. That's a patently offensive arguement to make. I sincerely hope that is not what you are saying.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#358028 - 09/26/07 04:33 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Charles Mahan]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Of course I'm NOT implying "only real Japanese people can dare train in real Japanese Martial Arts".

I said what I mean & I mean what I said, no more - no less. No implications, subtle messages or hidden agenda.

For the record, I presented another POV - my perspective as someone who is sensitive to & understands Japanese mind. I'm not speaking for all Japanese (that would be silly, wouldn't it) but my comments are valid; they're not something I'm making up just to be contentious.

Fact is that I've met many Gaijin in Japan who have assimilated into Japanese culture &, in some ways, are more Japanese than me.

I understand why many Gaijin see Japanese reverance for ancestors & traditional culture archaic &, in the midst of popular high-tec culture, a bit odd. But I understand how & why this dichotomy exhists becuase of my bi-cultural upbringing.

Just accept that Japan & it's people are a collection of contradictions & leave it @ that. If you want to understand, you can but it's usually more effort than most Gaijin are willing to expend. Not a bad thing...it's just the way it is.


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