FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TomRosenberg, jessylin, play, Keith_G, LeroyCFischer
22937 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
jwwmantis 2
harlan 1
Beefcake 1
LeroyCFischer 1
William_Bent 1
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
New Topics
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
2015 Master Yang Jwing-Ming Seminar
by jwwmantis
12/05/14 10:36 PM
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by
12/27/06 11:43 AM
Your true goal
by
03/03/06 07:16 AM
Recent Posts
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
Your true goal
by Beefcake
12/11/14 02:44 AM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by LeroyCFischer
12/04/14 02:07 AM
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
Forum Stats
22937 Members
36 Forums
35591 Topics
432526 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#357999 - 08/24/07 08:36 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: PsychoDave]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Quote:

He said that it is common in Japan, according to Nishiuchi Sensei, my sensei's sensei, to pick a mon and carry on the tradition.




I've never heard of this (doesn't mean it's not true, I admit). And how would you know what the family's "tradition" (what they believed, what they did or anything) was/is?

I think that the design looked "cool" to you, period. There is no meaning, connection or value.

Quote:

I understand how someone might be offended but that is not the intent.




So if you really understand how someone may be offended, why do it? Do they know your intent? And what is your intent if you haven't studied the family's tradition & values. You're looking @ this from a Western perspective (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery) & not from a Japanese perspective.

In a similar but less emotionally-charged example, no matter how you say the "N-word" ("niggah"), doing so among a Black population will get you some very disturbed looks (@ best).

This is how I see it as a half-Japanese MA-ist raised in both cultures. Can any other Nikkei out there identify?

owari

Top
#358000 - 08/24/07 09:47 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I have heard of top folks in the MJER org saying it was perfectly fine to pick a mon and use it. It's not unheard of. I have also heard of top folks in the MJER org say that those who do not have a family mon of their own should probably use the mon of their sensei or the more generic Mon which I posted earlier. So it can be done either way.

I would not pick a mon at random. Not without running it by someone higher up the chain as it were. It would be most unfortunate if I were to show up in Japan with the soke's mon on my montsuki quite by accident. Or perhaps a mon which has a negative connotations.

My current montsuki has a single lion rampant inside a circle. It's drawn from a family crest inside a book of about Mahan family geneology. Single lion rampant blue on gold. The blue on gold is obviously out, but it was very easy to put a single lion rampant inside a circle. This is in keeping with a mon which my instructor uses. His is 3 wolfheads. That comes from his family history. You can see an image of my mon at the following url: http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=15504

My next montsuki will have the Mon which I posted the link to earlier. It will draw far fewer funny looks in Japan.


Edited by Charles Mahan (08/24/07 09:54 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#358001 - 08/24/07 11:07 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
PsychoDave Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 47
Loc: California bay area
Your right, i dont know about the families history. But I intend to research it and find out as much as I can. And no, I didnt pick it because the design looked cool. I picked it because its a familiar symbol to me. It looks like an infinity symbol, life ever lasting. I had two choices in mind, that was my second. I spent hours looking at them and trying to find a resource on line to do my "homework" which is why I started this thread.

You and I, it would seem, think and feel very differently regarding this topic. I dont know how to explain my thoughts and feelings clearly through text on a web page... I dont think that anyone would be offended by this at all. I understand how they could be, but I think its more likely ill get struck by lightning than offend a Japanese family because I adopted their kamon.
_________________________
-Dave-

Top
#358002 - 08/25/07 03:05 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: PsychoDave]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
It's difficult trying to explain the Japanese mind/soul to "Gaijin". Just thought you were more interested in honest feedback - not just getting a generic rubber-stamped "go-for-it".

Maybe I'm just old-school & it doesn't matter, but to me, it's something I'd shake my head & roll my eyes at.

owari
_________________________
Ed Ichihara Smith - Shukokai

Top
#358003 - 08/25/07 10:49 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: PsychoDave]
Borrek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
I would personally feel uncomfortable wearing something that I was not entitled to. My kimono does have the lotus mon that Charles linked to, but as he mentioned that is accepted for MJER use.

Would it be distasteful if I decided that I liked the design and "self sacrifice" symbology of a purple heart, and then had that embroidered on my kimono? (I'd hate to try to explain my choices to someone who actually earned the right to that display.)

One thing that I noticed is that if you guys are all choosing a mon at once, then it can't be much of a tradition for you. Why the sudden decision to add this to the program?

Top
#358004 - 08/27/07 10:57 AM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Borrek]
ScottUK Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 13
Create your own Mon based upon something in your life (vocation or location?).


Edited by ScottUK (08/27/07 10:57 AM)

Top
#358005 - 08/29/07 02:01 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: hedkikr]
PsychoDave Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 47
Loc: California bay area
Oh, no, im not looking for a go for it... I just wanted to know if any one had any resources for me to get some info from. I knew that there were going to be people with a totally different take on it than me. Its just that some times things can get a bit to emmotionaly charged and people start taking offence and I want to avoid that. I deffinately respect your position, dont get me wrong, I just have a different one...you know?
_________________________
-Dave-

Top
#358006 - 08/29/07 02:09 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Borrek]
PsychoDave Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 47
Loc: California bay area
It wasnt a spur of the moment thing, its been in discussion for longer than ive been practicing, I joined in Feb this year and at one of my first classes my sensei and other stuients were discussing it.

And this is why I started this thread...heres a question for all of you. Regarding the kamon being worn on a samurai's kimono...was it an earned right? I thought it was something everyone did to show the family they belonged to, I didnt think a samurai needed to earn the right to display his family crest... All im trying to do is learn...to find out about the kamon or mon, what family went with what one, where I can find info on the internet or what books would be a good resource...I just wanted information, i didnt ask if it was ok if I wore it and I didnt want a discussion on personal beliefs...just some information.
_________________________
-Dave-

Top
#358007 - 08/29/07 02:28 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: PsychoDave]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
This is a pretty good book
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Encycl...2050&sr=8-5

This one's not bad either
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Design-Mo...2050&sr=8-5

I don't know that either are going to be able to give you a family history for the mon presented though.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#358008 - 08/30/07 01:50 PM Re: Samurai Mon [Re: Charles Mahan]
PsychoDave Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 47
Loc: California bay area
awesome, thank you for the info, I appreciate it!!
_________________________
-Dave-

Top
Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga