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#357396 - 08/22/07 01:32 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Oooh, touchy...

I'm not picking on you because I'm always correcting people who use the words "Numchucks", Nunchucks", "Chukka-sticks" (you get the point). I believe that MA are both art & science of details & don't think you can pick & choose which details you will ignore - everything from belt-tying to rhythm of attack.

So ask the question but be open to correction.

owari

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#357397 - 08/22/07 09:04 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I really don't think thats being touchy, you have technical genius that surfing the net that want to put everything in there world. Some system don't wear belts or stress any rhythm. Are you saying that they can't join in.

I understand that asking a questions leave you and the question in jepordy. But try to at least add some meat to the topic after you drink from your holy grail.

I will admitt that its sometimes hard to answer a question, if you don't know what or who it refers to. As I mentioned my bad. But as the thread went on HW, Goju, C-hands & Higanona.

So really who is being the touchy one?
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#357398 - 08/22/07 11:59 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I think I understand what you're trying to say but your grammer leads me to believe that you're not a native English speaker. I apologize in advance.

So to answer your question, for the majority of practitioners, it's not necessary to go to the extreme Higaona Sensei has. Tak Kubota has done the same thing but lately, he's backed off a bit. It's not so much an issue of "honing his blade" (his hands are hard enough) but his dedication to his art. Anything less & he will feel that he hasn't done justice to his karate from an internal perspective.

owari

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#357399 - 08/22/07 03:01 PM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: hedkikr]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Mmmmm...very well put, great wording.

Anything less & he will feel that he hasn't done justice to his karate from an internal perspective.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#357400 - 08/23/07 09:24 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: Neko456]
Usenthemighty Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Nash hood , TN
Yea, I for one am impressed. Provided I can still open and close my hands as well as not have arthritis, then yea, I would love to have hands like that.

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#357401 - 08/24/07 06:39 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or n [Re: Neko456]
haze Offline
Dragon

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Syracuse NY USA
As far as I can tell;
Meijin , literally translated, means "Brilliant Man."
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#357402 - 08/24/07 08:42 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or not? [Re: Neko456]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
My sensei, who's in his 60s, never "conditioned" his hands. His forte is tuite (but then again, don't let him strike you!). Doesn't believe in breaking, either. So there's different schools of thought.

I've conditioned my hands so that striking a person - even catching them on a part of the skull I wan't aiming for -won't hurt them (the hands, not the person!). Boulders, I care less about. If they attack me, I think sidestepping would be best.
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#357403 - 08/24/07 12:22 PM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or not? [Re: Ironfoot]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
David - As far as I can tell;
Meijin , literally translated, means "Brilliant Man."

My reply to David - Thats closer to what my Sensei intended, I don't think he was refering to these Masters that he spoke of as Tourney Champs, because he was not impressed with Tournament sparring. Now this doesn't mean that Rodrick was right in his use of the word, but that your translation is closer to what he meant. Again he couldn't really speak in the Okinwans language probably repeating what his Okinawan teacher or Japanese senior student stated. Or what he thought they said.

Iron...
I'm in the middle I believe in tooling but I believe now in medication to hide the affect of tooling.

As a younger man say a 1st kyu through Sandan maybe Godan 18-34-50 yr old, maybe walking around with torn open callouses and dead skin hanging off your knuckles maybe?

Probably at 50 you are almost through touching young soft womens legs, but at 70+ I don't know? I still see it as a sign of dedication to his art, but this is just mo.

I'm impressed but I don't think I'll follow. I want a strong fist/hand but I want it to look soft, well softer then a small rough edged Boulder or Brillo pad!

This is to you Master Higanona.



Edited by Neko456 (08/24/07 12:29 PM)

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#357404 - 09/11/07 07:42 PM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or not? [Re: Neko456]
Sempeirobot Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 5
I'm impressed...

Some see Karate, in part, as becoming stronger and stronger...'till death...

Especially these old school types (like Master Higanona or those who trained under Mas Oyama)...

Those guys would be training in the dojo when strangers would walk in and challenge them...According to one of his students, Mas Oyama would tell him: "send that man to the hospital!"

I mean, these guys were (and still are, despite being 60+ years old), hardcore...they learned the martial art in the dojo, but learned how to fight in the bars after training...

For them, training never gets easier...if so, you're not doing it right...

If your focus is obliterating what you punch, I don't think the hardness of human bone would stop you...

when you're tired of doing knuckle pushups on hardwood, you really should go punch some steel, concrete or stone...

If you don't, your hand may still be hard enough to go though bone in a fight, but how are you going to slice through four feet of ice with hands that haven't been trained on something at least as hard?

It really depends on what your Karate priorities are...do those priorities include breaking really hard things?

If so, I wouldn't try it if you are not willing to at least do some knuckle pushups to strengthen your hands.

'Cause if what you are striking doesn't break...your hand or foot just might break trying...

SempaiRobot

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#357405 - 09/12/07 11:15 AM Re: Hagashinona's hand conditioning impressed or not? [Re: Sempeirobot]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Thats a nice explaination of why. But really that look is just for show, you can have heavily conditioned hands and treat them and they look nearly normal. As mentioned before it shows his dedication to being a Karate Man at 60-70 years old.

As for challenging him in his dojo out of respect for him you have to fight his best students 1st then eventually fight him. Usually having been part of 70s-80s challenge matches to defend a dojo, I know you never get past the dojos best of the best. Challenging a dojo is a poor decision. BC as you fight the next opponent is checking out what you do and you are getting tired now he knows you. You're dead meat, I'd never, never do that its stupid, disrespectful and not much chance for success. Thats another topic anyway.

I agree that its impressive and see its potential but he could treat the hand and they wouldn't look like little boulders on his wrist, but its his calling card.

We all know you can break or tear/screcht ligaments without huge calloused knuckles but it does help in KO, shocking and pentertation power, out of gloves. My hands are ugly/conditioned but not as conditioned/ugly as his. No I'm not jealous but I am impressed in a way, old as he is.
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