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#356852 - 12/12/07 09:11 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Stormdragon]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Maybe his ideas weren't true. Who knows. But must you react to valid points with sarcasm? Other people (even younger ones every once i na blue moon) might know a thing or two.




Storm. Can I suggest you read my input to beggin with?
As Gavin stated I seem some how to be stumbling on to things.

Ionisation of a sodium atom? It cant be seen? Can It be proven? If so how? Yet you are meant to believe it?

What causes the adrenalin dump?
Have a read and see if you can answer the questions I put?

Explain the brains function. Explain night mares and the physical response?
What is the endocrine system?

If you dont know then a person cant begin to ponder what IMA's are trying to achieve.

My understanding of the term chi is that to many Westerners make more of a big deal of the term "Chi" than actualy trying to apply the teachings to reach a specific goal.

Which I think is self control. Applying a relaxed mind/ thought process to a physical act. Internal.


Jude

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#356853 - 12/12/07 05:53 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Gavin]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Gavin,

It sounds like you are saying objective reality does not exist at all and therefor we can all believe whatever we please. That is just not true. Some things are a matter of perception. We can argue whether a brick wall is too high or too thick, whether it needs to be here or there, whether it is beautiful or ugly. But we cannot deny it exists. If you doubt this, run into one head first some day.

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#356854 - 12/12/07 06:52 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
If chi is energy and energy can flow different or better in a given situation subject to that person changing their mind set then that has to be a good thing.

A person having night mares sometimes causes that person to have the physical symptons as though it were real.
Why?
Because the human mind cant seperate thought from real visual occurences.
If a human could train their mind to react different to both then in some cases energy would be there for a longer period of time.
Such as the adrenalin dump not using up all the energy at a given moment.
Perhaps that is what is refered to as chi?
IMA's speak of certain exercises to keep the bodies internal organs healthy?
If they do or not I dont know.
Sinking of the chi to the naval.
Could that be considered as lowering the body weight?
Putting more weight in to the legs?
Not lowering the weigth when being swept means a person is swept

The mind ponders

I think the whole knowledge of atoms is theory. Cant be physicaly proven. So do they exist in the form as stated by scientists or not?
Even they argue.


Jude

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#356855 - 12/12/07 09:38 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Albert Einstein himself was against the theories of quantum mechanics, and he, one of the greatest scientific mind of the 20th Century, was eventually proven wrong. We lesser mortals had better be more humble.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#356856 - 12/13/07 01:58 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Albert Einstein himself was against the theories of quantum mechanics, and he, one of the greatest scientific mind of the 20th Century, was eventually proven wrong. We lesser mortals had better be more humble.




I would guess he wasnt proven wrong. It would have to be a guess as his work was so complicated.
More than likely some one thought up a different hypothesis and others like sheep agreed. In this day and age atomic particles cant be physicaly proven nor can the speed of light. Or that light consists of photons or even that they exist as stated. So it is a guess.
He isnt around anymore to publish books. Others are so change the theory and they earn money.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (12/13/07 02:01 AM)

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#356857 - 12/13/07 02:00 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

If you doubt this, run into one head first some day.




Funny that's exactly what discussing this subject feels like sometimes! It doesn't exist...
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#356858 - 12/13/07 02:09 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Art thou going to discuss chi and what it is? how is it implemented? or art thou going to join in and compete on ambigouse sentences.

Back to the topic.

Has anybody on the thread reached the state of mind that it is relaxed during a confrontation?
They can control their own endocrine system in such an event?


Morning Gavin. Should imagine the kettle is on.


Jude


Edited by jude33 (12/13/07 02:13 AM)

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#356859 - 12/13/07 02:48 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I'm a psychology major and I've had multiple courses in Human Anatomy and physiology so I'm pretty squared away with that for the most part, especially the brain which is where I'm most knowledgable. The endocrine system and Adrenaline processes I'm slightly sketchy with but I'm working on it.
I have very little knowledge of Atomic and Molecular processes though.
How would you control the endocrine system when it's completely controlled by smooth muscle? I mean adrenaline is one thing but the endocrine system in it's entirety, even your pulse or heart beat is almost impossible to control without unreasonable time and effort.
How oculd regular people in 1st world societies manage that?


Edited by Stormdragon (12/13/07 03:08 AM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#356860 - 12/13/07 04:08 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

d reached the state of mind that it is relaxed during a confrontation?
They can control their own endocrine system in such an event?





I've had a few instances when I was working the Door where in a potentially stressful situation I was able to remain calm. Unfortunately had an incident very recently that also achieved the same state.

Although you don't have control of involuntary systems, you do have the ability to use the voluntary systems to change the physiological state of the internal environment of the body...which has a knock on affect on the rest of the body. Affecting the body on a organ level will affect the whole gameshow, down through the cellular level down to the chemical level. And it will also affect stuff up through to the organism level. By changing the rate the respiratory system is working will have a direct affect on the cardiovascular. Anyone ever told you to "Take a deep breath!"? There is a saying, "The breath is the gateway between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems!".

Trouble is Jude, and why I usually now result to one liners so much, is that people aren't really interested in discussing things. They just skip through your posts to troll for points to pick apart. It's far easier to just say "Yep, Chi doesn't exist!" coz most people don't actually know what it is they are saying doesn't exist. Very few people actually even have a true definition of what they think Chi is in their minds. They think Chi is the mystical energy that use to knock people out from 10 miles away or reheat take aways with...so in this interpretation of the concept they are totally right...chi doesn't exist. Most are too lazy, narrow minded and ignorant to even begin to open up to the possibility that there might be a bit more to it than that. Something beyond using google, something beyond idiotic hippies on acid....so I just stick with them at their level of understanding of the concept, and at that level Chi/Qi/Prana/Ki and the tooth fairy most definitely don't exist...so they are right....but they are still obsessed with the topic. A lot of people on this forum have far more invested in Chi than I ever will.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#356861 - 12/13/07 05:18 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Gavin]
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
... or you could approach it from the view that 'chi' is the key idea in a practitioners 'users manual' of how to synergise mind, breath and body in a way that gets the optimum use of body and mind for martial arts. If you tried to explain it scientifically (which in theory, you'd eventually be able to), you'd never get around to training!
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

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