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#356842 - 12/10/07 09:51 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

If you understand chi as a metaphor, that is fine. However, many people believe it is an actually existing physical force, like radiation or electromagnetism. It isn't, and those who train as if it is are deluding themselves.




I am afraid I am just a mere simple homo-sapian (although some where there must be homo-erectus gene's)

Is chi energy? How complexed is the human brain? How complexed is the endocrine system? Then who am I to say what does and doesnt exist.

Radiation.
Ionisation of the sodium atom is one of the proccesses of the brain signalling/ adding to the molocule(s) make up that causes the muscles to move.
Is ionisation termed as radiation?

Is chi an energy flow brought about by the human brain and body functioning in a certain way other than they normaly do.
Did warriors of old condition their minds to except death?
Therefore losing the fear of death?

Does no fear mean no adrenalin dump? Does weigth training /getting stronger mean that can cross over to combat striking skills?
Only if the brain is re-trained in those movements. Reprogrammed?.
What is this re programming?

Is chi the energy brought about by some of these factors?

Says Jude stepping down from his soapbax and putting the kettle on.
2 sugars in your tea?

Jude


Edited by jude33 (12/10/07 10:01 AM)

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#356843 - 12/10/07 10:10 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Ronin1966]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Hello Flyboy2002:

Forgive me I cannot resist your ~challenge~. Though I too am uncomfortable with the chi idea, solely because I have no cultural context for it. Were I of/from a culture where chi/ki/ was a daily idea, this would not be a problem for either of us I suspect?

Lets get to the heart of the issue. What/how do you classify zero variation externally, the literal carbon copy
doing a move/movements and producing tangibly, (ie radically) melo-dramatically more powerful physical results??? ie One person doing the same externalized movements yet attaining radically different results because of something they are doing mentally, or using imagery, with no externalized difference?

What/how do you classify a different mental focus? Example instead of concentrating on the situation/technique at hand, you strongly concentrate on the images, components, necessities of cooking a 5 course dinner and only that, or the mechanics of flying an airplace instead of the physical situation before you. If I concentrate, (igonore the physical in front of me) and focusing instead on an irrelevent situation... we get very different degree of power. Now instead I now focus solely on the assorted images to make a limb/joint more powerful...

What would you call that result prey tell?

Jeff




I am looking at the same thing myself.
The thing is it would mean changing the homo-sapians
in built response.
Changing the sub consciouse mind.
Is it possable?
I have to be carefull here but looking at some martial arts coming from some countries. They look like rips offs of existing techniques. Bit like where most copying of goods took place.

Jude.

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#356844 - 12/10/07 07:45 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
"Though I too am uncomfortable with the chi idea, solely because I have no cultural context for it. Were I of/from a culture where chi/ki/ was a daily idea, this would not be a problem for either of us I suspect?"

Probably not. However, if we were both Scandanavians living at the time of the Vikings, our shared "cultural context" would have us believing in Wotan and Thor. That would not make them real.

"What/how do you classify zero variation externally, the literal carbon copy
doing a move/movements and producing tangibly, (ie radically) melo-dramatically more powerful physical results??? ie One person doing the same externalized movements yet attaining radically different results because of something they are doing mentally, or using imagery, with no externalized difference?"

I would deny that it had ever happened or was even possible. I would also point out every attempt to document such phenomena in a controlled setting had failed.

"What/how do you classify a different mental focus? Example instead of concentrating on the situation/technique at hand, you strongly concentrate on the images, components, necessities of cooking a 5 course dinner and only that, or the mechanics of flying an airplace instead of the physical situation before you. If I concentrate, (igonore the physical in front of me) and focusing instead on an irrelevent situation... we get very different degree of power. Now instead I now focus solely on the assorted images to make a limb/joint more powerful...
What would you call that result prey tell?"

I would first ask you what you meant by a "different degree of power?" Do you mean more power, less power? And how do you know? Did you measuure the power in some way or just "feel" it?

To be honest, you are being rather obscure here. I am not sure I undertsand what you are trying to describe exactly.

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#356845 - 12/10/07 08:04 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:





Probably not. However, if we were both Scandanavians living at the time of the Vikings, our shared "cultural context" would have us believing in Wotan and Thor. That would not make them real.





If the scandanavian women at that time did then I would
agree with them. Wouldnt realy be listening to what they said just nodding and looking like I agree.
Who would care if they were real?
I would gladly share the scandanavian womens cultural context.

I presume your answer was to Ronin?



Jude

Minus soapbox

Blue eyes etc etc.


Edited by jude33 (12/10/07 08:06 PM)

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#356846 - 12/11/07 01:28 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: jude33]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Well, I am very concerned about what is and is not real. Sorry.

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#356847 - 12/11/07 02:31 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Why be so concerned about something that doesn't exist? Just as beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, so are the things we perceive to be true. Thor did, does and will probably continue to exist for many people. Just as God does, just as Allah does...and to be fair just as chi does to some. The point people miss in this whole argument, and one that Jude is starting to stumble upon, is that whether or not the phenomena exists or not is irrelevant, the physiological and neurological manifestations that produced as a result of a certain method of engaging the body and mind through many abstract thought processes is undeniable. The use of hypnosis and NLP in enhancing sports performance is becoming common practice in the modern trainers arsenal, the Chinese have been doing that for 100's of years.

If chi doesn't exist in your *own* personal interpretation of the universe why do you keep trolling through this section of the forum? As I said before, most of the people I see stressed and obsessed with the existence of Chi are those that don't believe in it! They make it have far more substance in there own minds that I have seen anyone who truly understand the simple observational model ever has! Silly really!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#356848 - 12/11/07 03:17 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: fileboy2002]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Funnily enough, Scandinavian tradition has a philosophy similar to chi, called Oond.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#356849 - 12/11/07 04:24 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Gavin]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Quote:

Why be so concerned about something that doesn't exist? Just as beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, so are the things we perceive to be true. Thor did, does and will probably continue to exist for many people. Just as God does, just as Allah does...and to be fair just as chi does to some. The point people miss in this whole argument, and one that Jude is starting to stumble upon, is that whether or not the phenomena exists or not is irrelevant, the physiological and neurological manifestations that produced as a result of a certain method of engaging the body and mind through many abstract thought processes is undeniable. The use of hypnosis and NLP in enhancing sports performance is becoming common practice in the modern trainers arsenal, the Chinese have been doing that for 100's of years.

If chi doesn't exist in your *own* personal interpretation of the universe why do you keep trolling through this section of the forum? As I said before, most of the people I see stressed and obsessed with the existence of Chi are those that don't believe in it! They make it have far more substance in there own minds that I have seen anyone who truly understand the simple observational model ever has! Silly really!





If people are killing/murdering others because of their false/illogical beleifs then I think it matters and something must be done about it (I'm talking about extremist religions or lifestyles that allow such behavior such as those of terrorists-sorry to take things to well, the extreme but that is where reality tends to be found).
Is it right to oppress others because of beliefs you have that may or may not be true (and often most likely aren't) when you don't know for sure? I think in those cases something must be done. When your hurting innocents because of your beliefs than I think those beliefs at that point need to be dealt with appropriately. In this case, say a gorup is teaching regular people that they can become bullet proof due to chi/iron shirt training. And then they go try it and die. Should we allow that or allow the potential for that due to false beliefs? I think if a set of beliefs are putting people in danger then they need to be extinguished and addressed immediately. I agree with Fileboy that what is REAL (I.E what affects us directly) matters. Forget political correctness.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#356850 - 12/11/07 05:54 PM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Stormdragon]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
You know sometimes there really are compelling examples that make you really think, "You know, if Darwin was here, right here, right now...perhaps he'd reconsider his theory of natural selection!"
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#356851 - 12/12/07 03:52 AM Re: what can you actually do with chi? [Re: Gavin]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Maybe his ideas weren't true. Who knows. But must you react to valid points with sarcasm? Other people (even younger ones every once i na blue moon) might know a thing or two.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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