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#356473 - 08/16/07 05:36 AM My Best Use of Aikido
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
And it may have saved my life this time.

Bear with me, you have to read the whole thing to understand.

I was just walking back from the grocery store (ya it'a past midnight but I don't have a car right now) and on the way the car pulls up near the curb and starts following me. All these dudes are shouting, "F*ck you! Hey! Hey punk! Sup muthaf*cka! F*ck you!" among many more expletives. Now I had a can in my hand and I before I started Aikido I was a very scrappy kid. I'm still just 18 and before I was even wilder. My old instincts (hormones?) popped in my head for a second and my arms with a mind of their own were thinking to throw the can through the car's windshield. My "so-called brain" decided that that was a punk move and that I should just take these guys on myself 5 to one. Then my Aikido training kicked in. No, not the technique, since they had not actually attacked me yet, or even gotten out of their car for that matter. If the "aikido" way to deal with a projected, committed punch is to simply pivot and let it pass over you, how much more should I simply let meaningless words pass me by? I just kept walking and they drove off. I am a college student and taking summer classes - I could have gotten either arrested or hurt tonight and affected my GPA negatively, but I simply made a mental pivot.

I guess God was really testing me out today because again on the way back a cop suddenly pulled in front of me because he mistook me for a suspect (which was really weird because while he was searching me I overheard the description of who they were looking for and I look absolutely nothing like that... hmmm...) and anyways the cop was embarrassed after realizing I couldn't possibly be the guy they were after and tried to "harass a crime" out of me so it wouldn't look as embarrassing to get the wrong guy, and again, I just went through the steps and let it all go past me.

Now I can already see some people saying this is a lame story, this proves Aikido is for p*ssies and has fake techniques, etc etc. Well I have used my techniques (not "modified" or "adapted versions" of techniques, but just what I was taught) in physical situations before and came out undamaged when an attack was completely unavoidable. But that is not what I am proud of. Today is when I feel proud that I used what I learned.

I believe Aikido has shown its deepest protection to me today. Think about if I had reacted with anger and violence to those situations? Even if I had broken down every joint of all my harassers today, so what? I would just be in jail since the cops only see fighting where another sees self defense. Aikido proved its worth today.

P.S. I also agree that "most" Aikido out there right now is physically watered down and ineffective, having revisited and reexamined other places after training with my dojo, but hey, at least even most of those dojos still teach the correct mentality, and that is the most valuable thing you can learn.

Ossu!

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#356474 - 08/16/07 04:29 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
I liked it till you got here:

"Even if I had broken down every joint of all my harassers today, so what? I would just be in jail since the cops only see fighting where another sees self defense."

Consider that, in your words, what it ultimately boils down to is your reason for avoiding violence is that cops are unfair. That means that if there were no cops, no jail.... you would have no reason NOT to break down every joint.

So what actually held you back not peaceful intent... not humility.... yet.

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#356475 - 08/16/07 11:49 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Well, Speedy... you either need to learn to fight using your Aikido, or you're going to get your a$$ kicked if you're depending on simply avoiding the situations. A lot of those carloads would be bailing out and unloading on you... more than words... so get your mind right first, and then try all the "peace, love and harmony" part of Aikido.

It's easier to be peaceful when you can yank their arms out of their sockets...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356476 - 08/17/07 02:08 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: Joss]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

I liked it till you got here:

"Even if I had broken down every joint of all my harassers today, so what? I would just be in jail since the cops only see fighting where another sees self defense."

Consider that, in your words, what it ultimately boils down to is your reason for avoiding violence is that cops are unfair. That means that if there were no cops, no jail.... you would have no reason NOT to break down every joint.

So what actually held you back not peaceful intent... not humility.... yet.




haha good point. At least I had self control though, no?

Quote:

Well, Speedy... you either need to learn to fight using your Aikido, or you're going to get your a$$ kicked if you're depending on simply avoiding the situations. A lot of those carloads would be bailing out and unloading on you... more than words... so get your mind right first, and then try all the "peace, love and harmony" part of Aikido.

It's easier to be peaceful when you can yank their arms out of their sockets...




Wow I'm actually surprised, both with the immaturity and the demonstration that you probably didn't really read the whole post anyways. I took your bow off, what's the point with that attitude?

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#356477 - 08/17/07 07:21 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

Wow I'm actually surprised, both with the immaturity and the demonstration that you probably didn't really read the whole post anyways. I took your bow off, what's the point with that attitude?




Well, Ace, I've been doing Aikido for 23 years and Jujutsu for 45 years. Maybe I know a few things about life that you don't... I can promise you I know more about Aikido's intents and methods.

You can sit around the campfire and sing kumbayah all you want, but if you're planning to use Aikido for self defense, you better learn to fight. While the "peace" side of Aikido is concerned with blending, the fighting side of it is concerned with swordsmanship and tactics.

Maybe you're such a brilliant martial artist that you've had an epiphany that the rest of us have missed, but I doubt it. Military arts are about fighting, and Aikido is merely aiki-jujutsu with philosophy attached, so you might want to get your mind right before you try taking me to the wood shed about attitudes.

...and just for the record, I read your post several times before answering it. If you think you can walk around "avoiding trouble", you're living in a dream world. Get some "real world" training and then get back to me...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356478 - 08/18/07 02:01 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: wristtwister]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Quote:

Wow I'm actually surprised, both with the immaturity and the demonstration that you probably didn't really read the whole post anyways. I took your bow off, what's the point with that attitude?




Well, Ace, I've been doing Aikido for 23 years and Jujutsu for 45 years. Maybe I know a few things about life that you don't... I can promise you I know more about Aikido's intents and methods.

You can sit around the campfire and sing kumbayah all you want, but if you're planning to use Aikido for self defense, you better learn to fight. While the "peace" side of Aikido is concerned with blending, the fighting side of it is concerned with swordsmanship and tactics.

Maybe you're such a brilliant martial artist that you've had an epiphany that the rest of us have missed, but I doubt it. Military arts are about fighting, and Aikido is merely aiki-jujutsu with philosophy attached, so you might want to get your mind right before you try taking me to the wood shed about attitudes.

...and just for the record, I read your post several times before answering it. If you think you can walk around "avoiding trouble", you're living in a dream world. Get some "real world" training and then get back to me...




I live in Baldwin Village, also known as "The Jungles" of South Central, and ya, I know about real experience. I got jumped several times by BPS, R30's OHC, 18St, and others for refusing to join gangs (I'm 18 go ahead and disrespect me for being young too), or as your little MA mentality calls it, "multiple attackers," and ya I have used my techniques before. And I'm not proud of it.

This was a rare situation because this time they didn't rush me and never even got out of the car so I'm not gonna run up to them and initiate the sh*t.

But whatever dude, you just assume I'm in one of those dancing Aikikai schools, you knew nothing of my style or experience.

So here goes my next example of mental pivoting - I'm not going to respond to any more non-constructive posts.

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#356479 - 08/18/07 09:57 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I'm sure you walked uphill to school in both directions in the snow, and had to eat dirt to stay alive too... whatever it takes to generate a good story.

If you really live in a gang-ridden area... move. There aren't any fences that I know of that keep you from living somewhere else. If you choose to stay and then whine about being attacked, having to "use Aikido for self defense", etc. I don't have much sympathy for you.

You might be surprised what I know about your aikido training from your posts, and attitudes... and it doesn't have anything to do with your age, but your projection of philosophy. The real way to avoid trouble is "don't be there"... not pivoting and moving away. If you choose to live in "gangland", don't expect a pass for needing martial arts training to stay alive.

If you're looking for "constructive advice", move to a place where gangs aren't overruning your neighborhood. They're out there, and you can always go back and visit family if they choose to stay. Adults make those kinds of decisions every day.

While we're in this framework, you remind me of a "reformed" drug addict. They're always "celebrating" being clean, and "helping others to get clean"... when most of the time, they're also playing out that facade to keep connected to the drug suppliers. Your drug is "gang activity"... You don't want to get far enough away from it to actually be safe from it, you just don't want to join in right now...

I'm not disrespecting you because you're young, but because you're dishonest about what's going on. Your version comes across as

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356480 - 08/19/07 01:59 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: wristtwister]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Jesus, Wrist.

A guy comes along with a tale that isnt about violence; that actually demonstrates an attitude of avoidance instead of confrontation, and all you can do is critisize??

And PLEASE stop with the "I have been training for a billion years" rhetoric. Its been heard before, and ya know what? Despite what you might think, its doesnt add anything to your credibility. All it does is make you sound as though you are posturing.

To the original poster, well done. Its nice to read a post from someone who actually might be able to see past the superficiality of violence in the martial arts.

And wrist, if you honestly believe that the best use of the martial arts is violence; if you truly think that its all about who can beat up whom, then you might be a good fighter, but you are no martial artist.

G
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

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#356481 - 08/19/07 03:22 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: Galen]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Thanks for the encouragement, Galen.

And just to be clear about it, I don't mind criticism. Inf fact, I love criticism. For example, Joss's comment that at least part of my motivation was avoiding consequences rather than a 100% pure moral attitude, I agree. The cops around this are assume everyone is guilty automatically. If I said self defense they see "gang member" and it's over for me - they'll put me on their records.

So next time, I will definitely try to keep a more moral rather than selfish attitude. This is what I call constructive criticism.

The difference is that wristtwister just made random assumptions of things that were not in my post. I can't blame him, because honestly "most" Aikido schools I see do lack practicality, so he's probably basing his assumptions on experience, but it is still just that - an assumption. Telling me to move isn't going to help, I'm in college right now, and there's limited times you can transfer. Not only that, should I have to make such a drastic and disruptive decision (which I can't afford to do anyways) because some punks live in my area? Isn't another "physical" aspects of martial arts using your techniques and ability to help those around you? Should all martial artists run for the hills and live in monasteries and isolate themselves for all eternity? It's not just me, a lot of people here, including my friends, get jumped randomly. Well I'm kind of get overboard, but ya, thanks Joss for you criticism and thanks Galen for your support.

P.S. We don't get much "snow" in Los Angeles, at least not around this side of Crenshaw

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#356482 - 08/19/07 05:13 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: Galen]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Galen,
we've had differences before, and everytime you open your mouth I think you're dumber than the last time. You obviously swallow the bait any time somebody starts a "walk away from violence" thread, and jump in to champion them.

If Speedy Gonzales actually lives in a gang-land atmosphere, then he is free to move away from that... it's the ultimate "avoidance technique". If he chooses to stay in the violence-borne area, he's making a conscious decision to stay there and provoke the situations. He doesn't have to start the violence, he simply makes himself available to it.

And gee, Galen, I'll probably cry all night worrying about whether or not you think I'm a martial artist, or whether you think my experience has taught me anything about violence. It just so happens that I grew up in a gang-violence area myself, and I moved out at my first opportunity. That was when I started martial arts.

As for the violence involved in martial arts, you probably need to take up knitting or some other benign activity that doesn't involve fighting. You sure as hell don't have any understanding of martial philosophy, and how it works to avoid conflict.

Take a look at nature some time... see how many animals attack a lion, a bear or a crocodile. Why don't they?... because they'll end up as lunch. The only difference here is that you have the choice to make of where you live that keeps you out of situations to have to make the choices to fight or not. Choosing to fight or not is only "one situation", choosing to leave where the opportunity to fight constantly is always around is a life choice.

I don't personally care whether or not Speedy Gonzales gets into gang fights, avoids them, or gets smart enough to move away from them. That's his choice... but don't hammer me because he's dumb enough to hang out in the situation and expect, by some miracle, to never have to defend himself.

Quote:

And wrist, if you honestly believe that the best use of the martial arts is violence;




Nowhere in any of my posts have I ever said that. You can't learn martial arts without fighting and training in fighting, and your view of martial arts only shows how naieve you really are. Violence is a part of the martial arts, but it certainly isn't the purpose. Choosing to fight or not is a choice you have to make in every confrontational situation... and there are situations where it's safer to fight than to turn and walk away... but you can't make that determination on your keyboard. It's real life, and real situations... not the "peaceful" and "non-confrontational" blather on an internet chat board by trolls and their minions.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356483 - 08/19/07 05:21 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: wristtwister]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
I was browsing old posts a bit ago and it struck me as really odd that the conversation when from one of respect and advice seeking / giving here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=2#Post15862434

to what we have in this thread.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#356484 - 08/19/07 07:54 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: jpoor]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

I was browsing old posts a bit ago and it struck me as really odd that the conversation when from one of respect and advice seeking / giving here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=2#Post15862434

to what we have in this thread.




I know what you mean

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#356485 - 08/19/07 08:08 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: jpoor]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
One was a request for information, the other an application for sainthood.

Read the thread you dredged up from beginning to end, and then read this one from beginning to end. They are totally different, both in focus and intent.

I hope Speedy has a long and useful life, but if he sticks around in the pond, he'll eventually get wet.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356486 - 08/19/07 08:30 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: wristtwister]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
I wasn't choosing sides, just pointing out the irony.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#356487 - 08/19/07 09:44 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: jpoor]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
No problem... There's just a significant difference in the thrust of the discussions.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356488 - 08/21/07 11:59 AM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: wristtwister]
copyright Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 22
I think this was a good use of restraint and I think your training served you well.

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#356489 - 08/21/07 09:53 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: copyright]
MattyChi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
yea goodjob speedy I thought it was a cool post because there are many times when people try to instigate fights and things almost get real bad because I am not good at rising above it, so props to you.
I am fully aware how new I am to this forum, but wrist I think you are a bit attacking for no reason. All you simply needed to say was, "It's good you were able to avoid the conflict but you should be more ready to fight in such situations, goodjob mate"
Find a better hobby than randomly lecturing kids half your age about how much ass you can kick


Edited by MattyChi (08/21/07 09:57 PM)

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#356490 - 08/22/07 06:08 PM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: MattyChi]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Fine, guys... you guys sit around and hold hands with gang members, and show them you can walk off from their violence. I'm sure they will follow your good example, and give up the gangster lifestyle.

What probably happened, for real, is that they had something else to do rather than kick Speedy's a$$ at the time. Along with all the training I've done, which is another sore spot with you guys, I also worked undercover for two years. There isn't much I haven't seen or been around when it was going down... both from gangs, drug dealers, and every other kind of scumbag out there. All they respect is the guy with the biggest gun... and turning around on them only offers them a bigger target.

I avoid violence at every opportunity, but I'm smart enough to know when it's going to be necessary, and I don't attribute that to martial arts training, but to living in the real world. The ability to use my training is where I have an advantage, and there are lots of times when I could unload on somebody but don't.

If you keep cruising around in gang territory, you'll eventually "get in touch" with them. If you're lucky, you'll live to go somewhere else... if not, don't say I didn't warn you. I'm just not going to nominate you for sainthood simply because you walk away from a fight. You might have only lived to fight another day because they didn't have a gun with them. The answer is to get out of the area where that situation will occur... much less where it is the "regular" occurance.

Like I said before, adults make those kinds of decisions. Bravery and walking away will get you killed, and a brave dead guy is just as dead. I grew up around gangs, and they don't respect your walking away, even if they don't take any action this time. They'll be around... and they have a shot at you any time that you are.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#356491 - 09/05/07 02:42 AM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I believe Aikido has shown its deepest protection to me today. Think about if I had reacted with anger and violence to those situations? Even if I had broken down every joint of all my harassers today, so what? I would just be in jail since the cops only see fighting where another sees self defense. Aikido proved its worth today.

P.S. I also agree that "most" Aikido out there right now is physically watered down and ineffective, having revisited and reexamined other places after training with my dojo, but hey, at least even most of those dojos still teach the correct mentality, and that is the most valuable thing you can learn.

Ossu!




My thoughts
Firstly past mid night in such an area?
Most people where I live in rarely go out at night unless its things such as the pub/night club circuit in the middle of the city or for meals etc where they take a taxi.
Very rare anybody walks the streets alone.
If those guys were armed you would have had no chance had you reacted or even not reacted and they chose to attack.
If you are in that kind of area you have no chance so as advised dont be there in other words move out of the area.
Armed gang members lose their lives here so what chance would you have had.

Admitttedly walking away is the second best solution but to give reasons as not wanting to be in trouble with the cops is dreaming. Even if they werent armed(which you wouldnt know about) they could have been carrying battery acid to throw in to your eyes( a common trick in the area I live in) if you had approached the vehicle.

If you were in a situation where you had no chance but to defend yourself then stating aikido is mainly watered down in other words wouldnt work is B.S.

Bogus/bad teachers aside the arts I have chosen to study are I.M.A which from my observations include aikido type movements. These arts hopefully will add to what I already have.

Against that amount of people the odds are realy stacked against you if they werent unarmed and it turned in to a fight.

I can in a way see your point of walking away if it was a no win verbal confrontation brought about by your average type people to annoy you and then bring in the police. I have been in that situation before many times and yes to walk away is the best thing to do and blank them. But what you described isnt that. It is people intent on violance, and late at night.

As wrist said dont be there if you know it exists.I would Move away or restrict the visits to that area to a minimum if there is no chance of moving away and certainly wouldnt be walking the streets late at night.

Another thing if I got caught in that situation you described (through me being stupid for some unknown reason) then I would have been looking for escape. In other words somewhere to run to in case it got nasty where hopefully I couldnt get caught. Not just thinking how good I am having handled the situation correctly by not breaking limbs.

By the way sprint training is trained every 3 days by myself.There is B.S machismo and survival.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (09/05/07 02:59 AM)

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#356492 - 09/05/07 03:08 AM Re: My Best Use of Aikido [Re: MattyChi]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

yea goodjob speedy I thought it was a cool post because there are many times when people try to instigate fights and things almost get real bad because I am not good at rising above it, so props to you.
I am fully aware how new I am to this forum, but wrist I think you are a bit attacking for no reason. All you simply needed to say was, "It's good you were able to avoid the conflict but you should be more ready to fight in such situations, goodjob mate"
Find a better hobby than randomly lecturing kids half your age about how much ass you can kick




My thoughts.
The conflict shouldnt have been there to physically avoid in the first place given that scenario.Late at night? gangs? Total avoidance by not being there in the first place might have been the better option.
Wrist is stating reality. If a person is attacked and no other choice remains than to fight then that is what he describes, in other words learn to fight to win.

Jude

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