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#356412 - 08/15/07 10:16 PM Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training
falconhunter2020 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 16
Hi, I practice Isshinryu Karate. The other day I walked into a Tai Chi/Kung Fu school and asked about membership. The Sifu told me that if I trained at his school, I would not be able to train at any other school also. Their students trained exclusively.

He told me that he did not allow dual memberships because it was to hard to learn two styles at once. How many MA instructors would agree with this kind of policy?

To be honest, I was only looking for a part time membership. I wanted a supplemental training program to add on to my karate for two reasons. The first being convenience, my karate dojo is far enough away from my house to make it a hassle for me to get to as many classes as I would like. The second reason is that I want to have more experience fighting different styles to become a more rounded fighter.

What are your views as instructors on "supplemental" training. Does it in any way dishonor or demean your art?

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#356413 - 08/15/07 10:51 PM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: falconhunter2020]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Quote:

Hi, I practice Isshinryu Karate. The other day I walked into a Tai Chi/Kung Fu school and asked about membership. The Sifu told me that if I trained at his school, I would not be able to train at any other school also. Their students trained exclusively.

He told me that he did not allow dual memberships because it was to hard to learn two styles at once. How many MA instructors would agree with this kind of policy?

To be honest, I was only looking for a part time membership. I wanted a supplemental training program to add on to my karate for two reasons. The first being convenience, my karate dojo is far enough away from my house to make it a hassle for me to get to as many classes as I would like. The second reason is that I want to have more experience fighting different styles to become a more rounded fighter.

What are your views as instructors on "supplemental" training. Does it in any way dishonor or demean your art?



While I'm not an instructor, it's reasonable that an instructor would not want his/her students to train at another school. However, if the only reason given is that "it's hard to learn two styles at once", then I would find another instructor. In my mind, that's not a valid reason for him/her to deny you membership, especially since it's your choice to train in two styles. It's also possible that he said it out of good intention.

Supplementing your art should in no way dishonor or demean your art. To me, it's like saying weight training dishonors the art you are learning.

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#356414 - 08/15/07 11:22 PM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: MastaFighta]
falconhunter2020 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 16
Well, that school had just opened. They had some students lined up, but they hadn't had their first class yet.

Since the school hadn't opened yet, I'm surprised the instructor wasn't desperate for members. There's a chance he genuinely had a concern for my well being as a martial artist.

No, I don't think it would dishonor my main art, but the guy who was teaching me the "extra" art might feel under-appreciated.

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#356415 - 08/16/07 08:22 AM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: falconhunter2020]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

He told me that he did not allow dual memberships because it was to hard to learn two styles at once. How many MA instructors would agree with this kind of policy?




This former instructor does not agree with limiting student's training options. Although I do agree in principle that learning two styles at the same time can be confusing. But that is the student's choice, not the instructors.

I would avoid that school.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#356416 - 08/16/07 08:32 AM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: falconhunter2020]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Okay...look at it from another POV: a potential student walks through the door and basically says 'I'm not here as a committed student to learn your art as a primary art and ensure it goes on to the next generation. Actually, I just want to take bits and pieces of it, whatever I think has some value, and bring it to my primary art, and ditch you when I'm done. Nevermind that my primary instructor/art might have a problem with this Frankenstein approach.'

I wouldn't want you as a student because it doesn't do anything to promote 'MY' love/art. 'Crosstraining' isn't a welcome idea everywhere.

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#356417 - 08/16/07 12:59 PM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: falconhunter2020]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
falcon

There are multiple and valid POV's here.

On the one hand, learning martial arts is hard enough without trying to learn 2 very differnt approachs/principles at he same time.

Only so many hours in the day to train around work/school etc and doing 2 arts at once cuts that in half---or another way to look at it is that everything will take (at least) twice as long to learn.
Some arts have basic principles that differ in major ways from others.
So in general, with "newbies" I'm not a fan of cross-training in seperate arts--hard enough and time consuming enough to get the fundamentls of just ONE art under your belt.
To me its MUCH LESS a question of "demeaning" and MUCH MORE a question of simple practicality.

That being said, and on the other hand, I strongly encourge experienced people to learn what they can from those willing to share.

Speaking just for me, I would discourge a new student with little "hands-on" training to try and train in 2 styles at once.

A more experienced student on the other hand. I would encourge them to seek out other methods.


Edited by cxt (08/16/07 01:02 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#356418 - 08/16/07 02:21 PM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: cxt]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
If your school or you truly believe you offer the best instruction. Then your retention will high regardless if someone comes in part time.
_________________________
"I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey"

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#356419 - 08/16/07 02:48 PM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: falconhunter2020]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I have seen this represent a problem before. It's hard enough to learn these things without getting condradicting information. I'm a big fan of learn one thing first, then look for more if you need it. If you have a strong foundation in one thing, the new thing will not derail you but add to your tool box. If you're still learning a technique or especially learning basics, having one teacher tell you step back while another tells you step forward will undoubtedly slow your learning curve.

I always suggest students learn one thing at least to a reasonable proficiency (sp?) before trying to add others to the mix. But, I wouldn't tell someone they couldn't do it.


Now for the honour part of it. If I have a student come in and blatantly tell me they have no intention of sticking around and really learning what I have to teach, how motivated should I be to teach them properly? We believe that the real training in our art starts after 1st Dan, when you have enough basic foundational skills to move on to intense study of the art and it's techniques. So, yeah, if you're just looking for some tools for your box, attend a seminar and don't waste my or my students' time.

My 2 cents.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#356420 - 08/17/07 11:25 AM Re: Exclusive, Dual, and Supplemental Training [Re: JMWcorwin]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Not an instructor, but I've had a few.


My most pleasant experience at a school was with an instructor who had cross-trained in several arts. He taught us our base art (Shorin Ryu) and also taught us some useful things from other arts. He also frequently had guest instructors from other arts come and instruct. Done in this manner, he was able to regulate the information so that there were no "conflicts."

What I mean by conflicts: Imagine. Art number one is all about facing your opponent squarely while art number two is all about being at an angle. While it sounds easy to just remember to adopt the right stances depending on which school you train at, muscle memory makes that a daunting task. A couple nights this week I've been dealing with the transition from a more squared off style to one with a more angular approach. I know the right posture, I understand the reasons for it, but unless I think about it every step, I find myself squared off again and have to correct. With repetition, the pendulum will swing the other way.

Now, two totally different arts like karate and BJJ for example probably wouldn't cause so much cross interference.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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