FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 25 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Troy7785, wakita, swisztony, Tonybb, shelly1993
22920 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
AndyLA 3
futsaowingchun 3
Matakiant 3
Bartfast 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Victor Smith
09/28/14 07:11 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
Forum Stats
22920 Members
36 Forums
35579 Topics
432500 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Topic Options
#356292 - 08/21/07 03:42 AM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Cord]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Quote:

Quote:

Taking the example of an Olympic athlete is a fair one, but his diet and regime may have been poor at some point or other poor training methods may have not been considered.




Thats not the case. his sport is, in its nature, volume intensive, and so is much of the training. now this is where i turn into a scratched record- HIGH PERFORMANCE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL ATHLETES ARE NOT INTERESTED IN LONG OR SHORT TERM HEALTH! They are interested in performance and success, at the expense of everything else- family, friends, love, health, long term wellbeing. That is why performance enhancing drugs are rife, its why they go through hell in training, its why they dose up on painkillers and compete with torn muscles. Nothing matters but the win; and it comes at a price to the body.




You should sticky this thread it's awesome.

One question in relation to this debate - why is it commmon for women gymnasts flourish at such young ages and then suffer injury before they hit their 20's? Would it be because of over-training in their youth etc.?

And is it something Martial artists should be looking out for in terms of over-strething etc.?

Top
#356293 - 08/21/07 12:03 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Al_Fernz]
Ryan_from_Texas Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 47
Well, my guess is that to be a to perform at the highest level gymnastic athletes have to be incredibly flexible and athletic and mabye flexibility reaches its peak in its teen years. As they get older they might lose some of it and not be able to perform at the same level and are more prone to injury. I really have no idea simply a logical guess. I am interested to hear what others think or know.

Top
#356294 - 08/21/07 03:24 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Al_Fernz]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

why is it commmon for women gymnasts flourish at such young ages and then suffer injury before they hit their 20's? Would it be because of over-training in their youth etc.?




thats exactly right. All sports have a 'shelf life' that limits the age of the athletes taking part at the highest level. gymnastics is a brutal discipline that takes pre-pubescent kids and subjects their developing bones to impact, over flexiblity of the joints, incredibly high work rate and a lot of injuries. Next time they televise gynmastics look at the girls taking part- some of them are as old as 19, but look no different to the 13 year olds in the same competition, thats ammenorrhea- extreme low bodyfat hampering normal hormone production and development into maturity.
They push their bodies hard from a young age, and pay the price at a comparatively young age.

UKFF says that he doesnt consider 500 rep squats 'that high' a volume, yet he also stated that he has never managed it, so draw you own conclusions on the stress placed on the body from that.

As for it being better than working without a proper rack for weighted squats, i disagree also. options preferable include : learning to clean, and from there, do front squats. Deadlifts. Weighted lunges. overhead squats with comparatively lighter weight.
These all will limit repetitions and stimulate your physiology both appropriately (ie. make you stronger, as opposed to working endurance), and more efficiently.

It really is common sense- if you had a choice of buying either of two identical cars, they both were the same age, had full service history, and were in the same condition, but one had 30,000 on the clock, and the other had 90,000 on the clock, you would go for the lower mileage. Less wear and tear, greater chance of the engine having a longer trouble free life.

We all need to avoid doing unnecessary mileage- we do not want to peak, burn out and be left unable to practice what we love to do. I want to be training into my 90's if I am still around to do it, not sitting in a wheelchair showing a cute nurse pictures of me 'in my prime' and her not being able to imagine this withered shell as a once strong active guy.

Train smart, train to improve you life, train lifelong.



Edited by Cord (08/21/07 03:29 PM)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#356295 - 08/21/07 04:08 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Cord]
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:

UKFF says that he doesnt consider 500 rep squats 'that high' a volume, yet he also stated that he has never managed it, so draw you own conclusions on the stress placed on the body from that.





I am incredibly lazy.

But in all seriousness - a ten mile run would cripple me right now. I'm sure there are plenty of runners out there which would think 10 miles is easy and would just give them a good nights sleep.

My current poor condition shouldn't set the standard.

Top
#356296 - 08/21/07 04:13 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Cord]
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:

As for it being better than working without a proper rack for weighted squats, i disagree also. options preferable include : learning to clean, and from there, do front squats. Deadlifts. Weighted lunges. overhead squats with comparatively lighter weight.
These all will limit repetitions and stimulate your physiology both appropriately (ie. make you stronger, as opposed to working endurance), and more efficiently.





I would agree with this.

Additions would be angles of lunges e.g. having one foot on a bench behind you (this actual feels like a one legged squat and is difficult).

Also, side lunges and reverse lunges will increase adductor strength if you are interested in flexibility.

It all really depends on your goals - do you want to get big? Do you want to get strong?

Top
#356297 - 08/21/07 04:18 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: UKfightfreak]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


My current poor condition shouldn't set the standard.




Nor should the achievements of the highest echelon of athletes.

A hobbyist MA'er, a person training for health, wellbeing and to look ok on the beach, has no need to subject themselves to the rigours of this sort of physical stress.

Why do 100's of reps to achieve what you can achieve in 5? that is just silly

Running is a terrible example btw. Those who run middle/long distance on a regular basis pay for more physio's holidays than any other active persons.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#356298 - 08/21/07 06:35 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Cord]
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:

Running is a terrible example btw. Those who run middle/long distance on a regular basis pay for more physio's holidays than any other active persons.




Maybe true, I am not as exposed to as many injured people as you are, although I have met many runners and I have not heard of such an epidemic.

As a general point, I'm still not convinced that high rep hindu squats are as evil as you make out. As stated before, I concede that there are more effective ways to reach different types of goals especially pertaining to MA. We can agree on that, and from an advice point of view I would go with your recommendations.

I also agree with many of your points and examples regarding certain types of injuries. I just can't visualize the excessive ware and tare on the knee joint on a minimal impact exercise (no jarring or high impact) - I can't see it being any more of a high impact than jogging a 1000 steps.

Also initially time was sighted as an issue - but even if you waited 4 second intervals (that is a long time), it would still only take 25 mins to complete 500.

Top
#356299 - 08/21/07 06:47 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Ryan_from_Texas]
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:

Well, my guess is that to be a to perform at the highest level gymnastic athletes have to be incredibly flexible and athletic and mabye flexibility reaches its peak in its teen years. As they get older they might lose some of it and not be able to perform at the same level and are more prone to injury. I really have no idea simply a logical guess. I am interested to hear what others think or know.




From my very limited knowledge of gymnastics, and my above average knowledge of flexibility training I think many of the issues are caused by unhealthy and excessive training methods that are inflicted (I say inflicted as some of the stuff I have heard/seen footage of where a coach are basically assaulting young teens is terrible).

There is no reason why a healthy person with a normal range of mobility can't reach maximal splits etc. at any age. This is not just for teens! Through proper training (weighted squats and deadlifts actually being a good start) you could get excellent flexibility.

The only advantage teens and children have is that you can stretch tendons a lot more effectively (I say effectively, it is a very, very bad idea).

As for being more prone to injury as a person gets older - I think its more likely that they were injured to badly during their competition years.

We are not talking simple squat movements here, we are talking pushing the body beyond what it was safely intended to do (forced splits, bridges etc.).

I can still kick at head height at any time of the day without the risk of injury with just a few minutes of dynamic stretching first thing in the morning - and I haven't trained in a kicking art for a few years now.

Splits aren't really important for a kicker in MA, but it's achievable in a relatively short (and pain free) amount of time if you want it.

Top
#356300 - 08/21/07 06:52 PM Re: need a squat rack [Re: Al_Fernz]
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:

And is it something Martial artists should be looking out for in terms of over-strething etc.?




Don't feel any pain during stretching and you should be okay.

As per previous post, it depends what you want from your stretching. If it's just for kicks - dynamic stretching all the way.

To look cool in a split (that's all it is really that useful for, unless you are doing display type martial arts - which I have no problem with by the way!) fastest results will be seen in a combination of strength and isometric training.

To be able to hold your legs in a high position (like a dancer would), also useless for actual kicking - static active stretching is what you are after.

Get honest about what you want, and how fit and strong you are now and the results will be easy!!

Top
#356301 - 08/22/07 12:28 AM Re: need a squat rack [Re: UKfightfreak]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Maybe true, I am not as exposed to as many injured people as you are, although I have met many runners and I have not heard of such an epidemic.




and I know plenty of smokers who have not had heart attacks or cancer. Does this mean i should ignore the inherent risks of both involved in smoking and light up?


Quote:

Also initially time was sighted as an issue - but even if you waited 4 second intervals (that is a long time), it would still only take 25 mins to complete 500.




My entire full body resistance workout takes me 35- 40 mins. Remember, aside from the extra unecessary wear and tear involved in high rep work, you are also changing the fundamental results gained from your exercise. 500 hindu squats performed over 20 mins will, at best, build some degree of leg stamina/endurance. there are again, better ways of doing this if its your goal, and as alphawolf is training for strength high rep work is of ZERO use to him.
If someone asks directions to the cinema, you dont send them to the bowling alley because you think its a better place to spend an afternoon.

like I said, i can only offer advice on here, my word is not law, but if you want to minimise the risk of negative repurcussions from your training, you will always look to what is most efficient for your body, but they are your joints to wear, and its your time to spend as you wish.


Edited by Cord (08/22/07 12:32 AM)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga