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#356255 - 08/15/07 12:42 PM the art of war
ant123 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 9
hi i wanted to know if reading this book or the book of 5 rings would aid my martial art training and thoughts of combat? thanks. anthony

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#356256 - 08/15/07 12:57 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ant123]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Yes.

If you understand it and can apply it.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#356257 - 08/15/07 01:27 PM Re: the art of war [Re: JMWcorwin]
seito Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 53
Loc: PA
Yes, and it will mean something different every time you read them.
_________________________
http://www.budobeyondtechnique.com/

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#356258 - 08/15/07 02:26 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ant123]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
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How about you read them, and then tell us what YOU think?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#356259 - 08/15/07 06:26 PM Re: the art of war [Re: MattJ]
ant123 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 9
don't get me wrong guys I'd love to buy them both but i just needed confirmation if they are useful as i could buy other books that may be more helpful such as the tao of jkd. anyway thanks for all the help:). ant

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#356260 - 08/16/07 09:04 AM Re: the art of war [Re: ant123]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
These are books about strategy (war & individual combat respectively) rather than on any technical aspects of MA training per se.

However 5 Rings is a little closer to what you are looking for, but not teaching you how to fight, but rather the human-psycho aspects "surrounding" individual combat when a fight is about to or starts. Here again the concentration is on weapons combat.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#356261 - 08/17/07 03:35 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Cavocer Offline
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Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Ohio, USA
Ant,

You may want to consider heading to a public library to review these books before you buy them. I would recommend buying all three books you've mentioned when you are able to. I'm fairly certain a library would have a copy of the Art of War, but I'm not so certain about the other two. There's no harm in looking.

I've found both the Art of War and the Book of Five Rings to be interesting reads. As ButterflyPalm said, B5R does deal primarily with weapons combat.

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#356262 - 08/17/07 06:55 PM Re: the art of war [Re: Cavocer]
Alabama_Samurai Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 34
Yes, they are very helpful if you can understand and apply the principles. The Art of War and the Book of Five Rings are not books that you can pick up and automatically understand thoroughly. You pick up on little bits as time goes on. You meditate on the concepts and you see ways that it applies to you and what you've done in the past. I realize something new every time I read them.

If you're a deep-thinker that likes to meditate upon concepts, then I say get them both.

And I'm not trying to advertise here, but you don't have to buy the books new at a bookstore. There are several online stores that sell used and new books for quite cheap. abebooks.com has a search engine that will direct you to book dealers. It's basically like the google of book searches. To the best of my knowledge they have more books listed that ANY site.
_________________________
"One Mind, Any Weapon"

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#356263 - 08/18/07 03:34 AM Re: the art of war [Re: ant123]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Both of these of books are excellent. I agree with what's been written here, about how they seem diffirent each time you read them.

The principles in the Art of War can certainly be applied to indivdual combat.

It might help to head to the library and look into books about Chinese philosophy, to give yourself an overview. This will help you with all three books you've mentioned.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#356264 - 08/18/07 09:10 AM Re: the art of war [Re: Ames]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

The principles in the Art of War can certainly be applied to indivdual combat.





Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am sure many of us will be interested to hear some examples?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#356265 - 08/18/07 05:11 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ButterflyPalm]
ant123 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 9
thanks for all the help guys:) as it happens my library does have the art of war however i don't know about the book of five rings. thanks, ant

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#356266 - 08/19/07 04:21 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ant123]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Depending on the level of illustrations and such, you can find a copy of The Book of Five Rings for as little as about 6 dollars. There have been several copies on the bargain book shelf at Barnes and Noble lately. The words are the same, just some pictures are prettier than others
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#356267 - 08/19/07 05:11 PM Re: the art of war [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am sure many of us will be interested to hear some examples?





Okay. Here are some passasges which contain concepts that could easily be translated to individual combat:

The Way of War is
A Way of Deception.

When able,
Feign inability; [....]

When near,
Appear far;

When far,
Appear near.

Lure with bait;

Strike with chaos.

If the enemy is full,
Be prepared,
If strong,
Avoid him.

If he is angry,
Disconcert him.

If he is weak,
Stir him to pride.

If he is relaxed,
Harry him;

If his men are harmonious,
Split them.

Attack
Where he is
Unprepared;
Appear
Where you are
Unexpected. (1.)

Also, almost all of chapter three, "Form and Dispositions",
can easily be applied.

Also, another favorite of mine:

The Skillful Warrior
Avoids the keen spirit,
Attacks the dull
And the homesick;
This is
Mastery of Spirit.

He confronts chaos
discipline;
He treats tumult
With calm.
This is Mastery of Mind.

He meets distance
With closeness;
He meets exhaustion
With ease;
He meets hunger
With plenty;
This is
Mastery of Strength

[.....]

Do not swallow
A bait.
Do not thwart
A returning army.

Leave a passage
For a besieged army.

Do not press
An enemy at Bay.

This is
The Art of War.(2.)


These are just a few of many. These are the quotes that really speak to me, as I find alot of parallel in the heiho of the waza of Hakuho Ryu (that I have learned so far).


1.Sun-Tzu, John Mineford, trans., The Art of War: The essential translation of the classic book of life, (New York: Penguin Books, 2002), 6-7.

2.Sun-Tzu, John Mineford, trans., The Art of War: The essential translation of the classic book of life, (New York: Penguin Books, 2002), 44-46.
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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