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#356131 - 08/14/07 04:30 PM sayoc kali
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Happened upon the website while surfing through the East Coast Gathering.

The seminar will be in the LA area. Anyone going? Any experience w/ this group/instructor? I'm thinking of going but I'd like some feed-back before forking over $75.00.

Thanks

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#356132 - 08/14/07 09:44 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
My Kali and Silat instructor has been training in Sayoc for some time. He is actually on the Sayoc whip and karambit videos. When it comes to knife, you would be hard pressed to find anything better.

Watch the movie "The Hunted" and you will see it in action. My only negatives about it (and these are my own) are:

I think it is a little excessive. I see no reason to train using 3 knives at once.

They are "all knife, all the time". I like some stick work with my Kali. When I get back to kali training, I am going to focus on one system (Lacoste/Inosanto, Modern Arnis, Doce Pares, Balintawak or Pekiti Tersia) and maybe learn the early/single knife Sayoc stuff.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#356133 - 08/15/07 03:02 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: Saisho]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Quote:

I think it is a little excessive. I see no reason to train using 3 knives at once.



I have several of their videos. 3 is pretty mild... some of these guys are wearing a dozen or so. I think "very excessive" is more fitting. I like the techniques shown but d4mn... If you see a guy carrying so many knives his pants are falling down, just run. I'm also guessing from the videos I have that physical fitness is not a requirement.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#356134 - 08/15/07 05:36 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: KJ63]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
I know what you mean. I actually meant using 3 in one hand at one time

Also, if you have that many knives, physical fitness (beyond that required to carry that much steel) is not real necessary
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#356135 - 08/15/07 06:58 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: Saisho]
Ice Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Slovenia, Europe
In the end of Transition drill video they give a good explenation that carrying so many knives is for practical reasons in training, which include many disarming techniques. Picking up a knife after every disarm would slow down and break the flow of disarming. Constantly pulling out knives out of different positions in the middle of the flow makes ones draws quicker, as knife draw is one of the most important things in knife combat.

The drills in the videos were designed to make people coming out of different FMA be able to transfer to Sayoc kali and arent nearly presenting the whole sayoc system, which includes thousand times more. Check the requirements here:
http://sayoc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=29


Edited by Ice (08/15/07 07:00 PM)

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#356136 - 08/15/07 08:15 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: Ice]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
I understand the reason for a lot of what they do. As I said, my Kali instructor is part of that system and when it comes to the blade, there is not much that can compare.

What I was saying is that I feel holding 3 knives in one hand is a bit excessive for me. Plus, I like stick work.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#356137 - 08/16/07 01:56 AM Re: sayoc kali [Re: Saisho]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
3 in one hand... Wow.

Some good points Ice, but we do a ton of disarms in Arnis, and bending over and picking up you stick or knife about 30 or 40 times is a good workout in itself.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#356138 - 08/21/07 12:16 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: KJ63]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
OK, I've registered for the seminar being held @ the Inosanto Academy this Sunday from 12:00 - 5:00. The cost is only $75.00. I was told that there have been other Sayoc Kali seminars in the past.

I'll let you know how it went (if anyone's interested)

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#356139 - 08/21/07 12:35 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Yeah... Keep us up to date.

I know I have been poking a little fun, but I really do enjoy there videos and techniques. I'm sure it'll be a good time.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#356140 - 08/26/07 09:55 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: KJ63]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Just got back...

Although I've never done any knife work per se (just my past experience w/ Arnis), it was an eye-opener. Although I didn't ask, everyone who was wearing a rig had @ least 6-8 knives.

Anyway, we learned a 9-ct template for both hands, applying them R-lead, L-lead & simultaneous, disarming, close-range drills & reversals. My head is still on overload. Luckily my training partner was patient w/ me (Thanks Nar - if you're out there).

Chris Sayoc was easy-going & very helpful. Tom Kier was also approachable & knowledgeable. The both gave the impression that they were as dangerous as they were friendly.

I hope that I can continue in some way to improve my meager skills but I feel that w/ the small amount of skills I acquired today, I'm more aware of the deadly consequences. I recommend Sayoc Kali 100% to anyone interested in realistic weapons skills.

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#356141 - 08/27/07 12:06 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
...14 hrs later...

At this point, I'm feeling a bit "sobered" by the realization of what I learned. Over the years, I've seen several pictures of autopsies, prison knife victims & ER knife cases that brings home the brutal reality of being on the wrong side of the blade. This was one of the reasons for my interest in pursuing knife skills.

However, being the "feeder" & causing the amount of carnage I've seen is another matter altogether. Firearms training is important but killing/maiming someone @ 10-20 feet is a lot different than doing so skin-to-skin. I suspect that if you shoot someone, their body fluids & pieces will be blown away from you while in a knife encounter, their arterial blood, any blood propelled by an exhale (from mouth or throat) and/or intestines that spill out will be on you.

Although everybody @ the seminar had a good time, I can't help but think that there may have been some that went through the drills as if they were playing 3 Musketeers.

That's why I'm in a bit of a funk this morning. The only thing I can tell myself is, "better them than me (or my loved ones)". I hope that I never have to cut anyone.

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#356142 - 08/27/07 08:42 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
JoshuaMonjin Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 427
Loc: Fallon, Nevada
Just a quick question. What kind of disarms did they do? I am curious because while I have no experience in blade arts or actually using a blade. There are some arts I have seen that the disarms as shown really scare me. At a seminar I attended the technique was to pin the arm and then grab the blade of the knife and pry it out of the opponents hand. Seems like you could cut your own fingers doing that better then the opponent could. IMO. I am not looking for a specific technique breakdown more as to what their philosophy and objectives are in a disarm. Thanks
_________________________
Jikishin kore dojo nari

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#356143 - 08/28/07 12:10 AM Re: sayoc kali [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
We didn't devote much time to disarms but the ones we did used the blade of the knife against the feeder's (attacker's) knife. In reality, a knife will be zipping @ you & through you so fast, a disarm is virtually impossible (& they acknowledged this).

They just demonstrated & had us practice for the sake of learning the mechanics.

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#356144 - 09/01/07 12:45 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
All those fancy trciks for disarming is just to make you feel cool. Stopping a knife is very difficult. Every thursday evening we would fight with wooden knives. Rarely anyone would come out without getting "cut". Next day you would see the bruises from the stabbing some of them seem you could survive some of them you would have been taken out in a coffin. The SE martial arts are aware of this and normally their teaching involves to seriously injure the holder of the knife before trying to take it away. But practice does help.

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#356145 - 09/01/07 12:47 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: shantungks]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
By the way. The Sayoc guys do know what is to cut a body and get cut. They are good at what they do.

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#356146 - 09/01/07 04:09 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: shantungks]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
shan...

Have you ever trained w/ the Sayoc group? What did you cover?

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#356147 - 10/10/07 09:30 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: hedkikr]
VDan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 80
Just hosted a Sayoc seminar this past weekend in Somerset, New Jersey. Excellent instruction and content. We are starting a training group in New Jersey and plan on hosting 3-4 seminars a year. If any one would like to be included on an email list for notification please email me at nick@allstartkd.com. 3 of 9 and TD1 was a great introduction to the art.

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#356148 - 10/12/07 07:39 AM Re: sayoc kali [Re: VDan]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
VDan, I would like to be on the list for notifications. I just started training in Mande Muda Pencak Silat and the knife techniques are incredible. I would love to see some from other styles as well.

Because you are in Jersey and I am down here in Maryland, it may be difficult for me to make them but I will certainly do my best.

Scottie


Edited by RazorFoot (10/12/07 07:40 AM)
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#356149 - 10/12/07 08:43 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: RazorFoot]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
I love Mande Muda but IMO the knife work in the silat systems does not come near the FMA.

I think you will like it a lot. FMA and silat work very well together.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#356150 - 10/13/07 12:23 AM Re: sayoc kali [Re: Saisho]
VDan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 80
Scottie,

Wanna have some fun in Maryland? Look up The Kick Connection. Carlos Pantlihug (OK I just destroyed his last name) is the instructor. He is a Master of Doce Pares and a relative to the founder of the system - as well as a 5th Dan in ITF Taekwon-Do. I have trained with Carlos a couple of times and have also trained in Doce Pares for a year. Carlos is a great instructor and excellent martial artist. If he is still around look him up. Outside of that i am having my Sayoc instructor (Guru Steve) out here in March and again in September of '08 and I will keep you notified

Nick

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#356151 - 10/15/07 12:57 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: VDan]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Hey Nick,
that is where I am taking classes now! My Mande Muda Pencak Silat classes are taught out of his school.

I was just sending a note to him to ask about some of his classes. I may be switching over to ITF TKD and may check out some of his other classes as well. I didnt want to make too big a committment just yet having recently picked up the Mande Muda Silat, but thanks for the heads up. And please keep me informed about other seminars too.

Thanks

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#356152 - 10/15/07 09:44 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: RazorFoot]
VDan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 80
Oh now that is funny. Please send him my regards.

Nick

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#356153 - 11/03/07 09:16 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: VDan]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
I have train with people who work constantly with Tom Kier and gang.

YES!!! FMA and Silat systems work nice!!! Remember Silat without a knife is not Silat!!!

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#356154 - 11/16/07 11:23 PM Re: sayoc kali [Re: shantungks]
VDan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 80
Tom Kier is one big, scary individual. His demo on the 3 of 9 DVD is great!

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