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#355998 - 08/14/07 09:09 AM Right through might
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Like Razorfoot mentioned in another thread, and Medulanet got me thinking in another:

Just cause we can... do we do ?
Is the only thing that validates is the ability to use your art?

Does might make right? Openended...your thoughts?

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#355999 - 08/14/07 10:18 AM Re: Right through might [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
The "right" that is made by might only lasts until someone with more might comes along. "Might" is always going to fade, it can't last. If your house is built on this foundation, it will not be long before it crumbles.

Because of this, might, or power, cannot be the basis for things.
Only fight when there is no other choice, and take no delight in victory. What validates is the ways might is not used.

"Achieve results,
But never glory in them.
Achieve results,
But never boast.
Achieve results,
But never be proud.
Achieve results,
Because this is the natural way.
Achieve results,
But not through violence."

Is your style for defeating people, or protecting people? Is your style for starting the fight, or ending the fight?
Dominating, or empowering?

My style is for putting an end to suffering, not for causing it.

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#356000 - 08/15/07 12:29 AM Re: Right through might [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Ideally, I agree with wuxing.
but
Realistically, I think Med brought up a good point about the combination of culture and threat level in that referenced thread.

our social tact and manorisms that are considered non-offensive and not looking for conflict, might actually invite more risk if put in another more hostile environment.

displaying an amount of confidence and fear is perceptable in any society. depending on the relative amount for that environment, it could be perceived as over-confident or self-doubt. since the amounts change per society, so does the accepted behavior. Falling outside the local accepted behavior is what makes people at greater risk as a target.


about 'validation'. not all Arts have the same motives. If the motive is to win trophies, and they win trophies...then I guess their Art is 'validated'? I found that most ways people validate their Art is first by trusting their teacher will validate it for them...and then either later finding their own validation, or seeking out people/entities who will continue to validate it for them.

ulimately, if honest with ourselves, we are the only ones who can validate what we individually do or don't do.

On the physical side though, validation is in what we are able to do and knowing what we can't do, but aware and striving with what we are trying to do.

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#356001 - 08/15/07 09:58 AM Re: Right through might [Re: Ed_Morris]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:



displaying an amount of confidence and fear is perceptable in any society. depending on the relative amount for that environment, it could be perceived as over-confident or self-doubt. since the amounts change per society, so does the accepted behavior. Falling outside the local accepted behavior is what makes people at greater risk as a target.




The thing is that as we progress further down the MA path, our confidence levels often change considerably, which can in turn make us more of a target. Martial artists often differ in much of their behaviour due to a more liberal way of thinking. We have a right to behave as we truly are, in public, in every situation. And if someone wants to fight us because we're expressing it (which is often the case when social norms aren't adhered to), then i believe we have every right to defend ourselves as we have spent all these years learning how to. I suppose it all comes down to the fact that if you believe that you are within your rights then that is justification in itself.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#356002 - 08/15/07 07:45 PM Re: Right through might [Re: jkdwarrior]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
I think the further one progresses down the Path, the less of a target you become. The less fear one carries with them, the less fear is attracted. Real confidence is not ever feeling like you need to prove yourself. Never feeling uneasy yourself puts people around you at ease. Being fearless does not mean being aggressive, it is just the opposite. This results in less conflict, more harmony. "No fight, no blame."

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#356003 - 08/15/07 09:26 PM Re: Right through might [Re: WuXing]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
er............ok, you're right
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#356004 - 08/15/07 09:27 PM Re: Right through might [Re: jkdwarrior]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#356005 - 08/15/07 10:08 PM Re: Right through might [Re: jkdwarrior]
Kaie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 27
Loc: UK
"Might makes right" is an evolutionary thing in my opinion. It's not pretty, it's not fair, it's not what MA should be about, but the premise is always there. The strongest survives. Our instinctive reaction is “fight or flight” but if flight isn’t possible... A lot of people do MA so they know they have a chance to be the one that survives; as an attempt to combat fear.

However, if we’re more than what our baser instincts makes us, we can change the interpretation of that “might”. Might is power, right? But there are lots of different types of power. Different situations surely require different types of power. The question is the same as the original posting, what will prevail? Base instincts or slower moral reasoning. I guess depends on how much time you have to debate before doing something!!!

That's my two pennies worth.
_________________________
Kaie "Fighting is muscle memory and senses."

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#356006 - 08/22/07 03:51 PM Re: Right through might [Re: harlan]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Wu and Ed have placed the crux where it should be and offered up idealism and reality in equal measure. The obligation for use of power is in the intent---but even that may have its own associated problems that may warrant other concerns. Not being omniscient, we can't see all ends from one particular act. Being human, we are all sacrificed on an altar of our own weaknesses and deficiencies. How we wend our way through these travails is the thing we can only ascertain for ourselves and try to do the best we can.

If you try to help a poor, subsistance farmer in a third world country with agricultural enticements using better technology by giving him a tractor...do you corrupt the infrastructure of his society where you now have wainwrights out of a job, and oxen are no longer the valuable commodity they once were?

All I am saying is that the reality of any particular situation makes it so much harder than just saying "might = right" or that one's attempt to do the right thing may have ripples moving outward from that attempt that are not as nice as one would hope. In the end though, we can only do the best we can.

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#356007 - 08/25/07 01:28 PM Re: Right through might [Re: butterfly]
Kaie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 27
Loc: UK
Butterfly made an important distinction between trying to help and actually helping. I agree, our perceived way of life is not always the best one for all concerned; this assumption is a terrible arrogance. However, this still has links with my earlier post - what "might" and therefore "power" could be; in the case Butterfly made, power and might was knowledge rather than raw strength. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

In the end though, whatever might/power you apply, is it not worse if good people do nothing at all? If only the bad people in world used their "might" to make "right" what a sorry state the world would be in.

All I know is if I see an injustice in front of me; I cannot turn away, do nothing or turn the other cheek. I'll fight; with words, with the pen, my mind, my skills, my education, in my soul and if necessary with my body.
_________________________
Kaie "Fighting is muscle memory and senses."

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