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#355642 - 08/11/07 10:56 PM serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training?
VietPanda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 103
OK this is a serious question, just out of curiosity - is it actually possible to be able to resist a shot from the weakest gun available these days through Iron Vest training?

I read in 'ripleys believe it or not' that a guy who worked out heaps got shot, and the bullet didn't even penetrate his skin!
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#355643 - 08/11/07 11:05 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: VietPanda]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
We should have a category on this forum for the craziest ass s.hit that people come in here and write. Kind of like a hall of shame.

This one would get my vote.

So, does this answer your QUESTION by any chance?


-John

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#355644 - 08/11/07 11:30 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: JKogas]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Iron Shirt focuses on minimizing damage from blunt force impacts, not minimizing damage from bullets fired by "the weakest gun available". I remember there being something about Iron Shirt keeping a spear from penetrating you, but a spear and a bullet are completely different.

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#355645 - 08/12/07 12:53 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: MastaFighta]
VietPanda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 103
Thanx mastafighta, greatly appreciated
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#355646 - 08/12/07 04:55 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: MastaFighta]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
IMHO I've only ever seen Iron Shirt practiced by sicko perverts who enjoy hitting each other and have a fetish sicking spears into places where spears shouldn't be stuck.

I understand the supposed theory behind the real Iron Shirt Qi Gong, not counting the idiots who practice the side show circus tricks with the spear, but have NEVER seen anything that remotely lives up to it. Some of the Okinawan body conditioning I've seen and felt is far more effective and practical....but I digress. This is an Iron Shirt demo from a UK lady called Joanna Zorya...much more use to Martial Artists than most of the crap posted:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4HdqtIsf-dI
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#355647 - 08/12/07 04:52 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: VietPanda]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

OK this is a serious question, just out of curiosity - is it actually possible to be able to resist a shot from the weakest gun available these days through Iron Vest training?

I read in 'ripleys believe it or not' that a guy who worked out heaps got shot, and the bullet didn't even penetrate his skin!




BB guns

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#355648 - 08/12/07 04:53 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Gavin]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

IMHO I've only ever seen Iron Shirt practiced by sicko perverts who enjoy hitting each other and have a fetish sicking spears into places where spears shouldn't be stuck.

I understand the supposed theory behind the real Iron Shirt Qi Gong, not counting the idiots who practice the side show circus tricks with the spear, but have NEVER seen anything that remotely lives up to it. Some of the Okinawan body conditioning I've seen and felt is far more effective and practical....but I digress. This is an Iron Shirt demo from a UK lady called Joanna Zorya...much more use to Martial Artists than most of the crap posted:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4HdqtIsf-dI





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#355649 - 08/12/07 06:25 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: VietPanda]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
VietPanda...

Allow me to paraphrase what you just asked...

I just saw something on TV. Is it real?
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#355650 - 08/13/07 01:34 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: Zombie Zero]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
BB guns are used to shoot rabbits and squirrels so they must be able to do a bit of damage. Maybe a potato gun would be a better bet.

I seem to recall that the Boxer rebellion posed a similar question some time ago and the stack of dead boxers at the end of the British guns answered the question to some extent.


Edited by trevek (08/13/07 01:36 PM)
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#355651 - 08/13/07 01:56 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Gavin]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

This is an Iron Shirt demo from a UK lady called Joanna Zorya...much more use to Martial Artists than most of the crap posted:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4HdqtIsf-dI




BWAHAHA
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#355652 - 08/15/07 12:28 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: VietPanda]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
In the English & USA invasion of China Iron Shirt training didn't work, there is no training that can defy the laws of physics or nature. A lot of great Master died finding that out.
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#355653 - 08/21/07 02:22 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: Neko456]
ShangTsung Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Bomb factory
Yes it does work however you must first buy and master my new system, Ultimate Bulletproof Kung Fu TM. I have performed the technique many times and you can now be the owner of this new system for only $190 + P&P.

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#355654 - 08/21/07 02:30 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: ShangTsung]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
It's just doing tons of pushups while wearing kevlar right?
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#355655 - 08/24/07 09:46 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: JKogas]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I don't know how true this story is, but years I ago I remember reading about the Shaolin monks experiance testing guns when they first arrived in China. As I remember, about a dozen of them lined up and tried tried to use iron shirt. One managed to stand there for ten minutes after being shot, but then fell over and died.

--Chris
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#355656 - 09/03/07 07:32 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: VietPanda]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

OK this is a serious question, just out of curiosity - is it actually possible to be able to resist a shot from the weakest gun available these days through Iron Vest training?

I read in 'ripleys believe it or not' that a guy who worked out heaps got shot, and the bullet didn't even penetrate his skin!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4El4ea4hTak

If you I look at this version of iron shirt training then
I think it looks like some form of joke. They cant punch or kick so absorbing the blows wouldnt be a problem for anybody who didnt train. I wouldnt like to be the partner of the woman hitting herself with a brick. I think body conditioning is trained through weigth training and or some form of restistance training, kata/forms( if that is how a person wishes to train) and breathing. I think the striking of the body does have its place once the required level of muscle condition is reached but this type of training on the above video is stupid.

Regards the bullet or pointed weapons thing then no.
Some idiot spouting rubbish.




http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=6

This is how karate kata is used for testing conditioning

Jude

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#355657 - 11/26/07 07:22 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: VietPanda]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
And they say there's no such thing as a stupid question.
All jokes aside though, I've heard of one case where a guy got shot in the gut and lived, where the bullet didn't fully pierce his muscles. I believe it was Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams or someone who was shot with a .357 round by a State Trooper and had strong enough stomach muscles to stop it somewhat but it screwed him up pretty good. I just read about it in a book on boxing for self defense so who knows how much truth there is to the story. Anyone else hear of that?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355658 - 11/26/07 07:28 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: jude33]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
What the hell were they doing at 39 seconds? Or do I want to know?
Anyway what kind of round kicks are those? There is no pivot, and no snap whatsoever, no power or speed, I mean they literally just toss their legs up there halfhazardly. That is embarrasing.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355659 - 11/26/07 10:51 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: Stormdragon]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

Anyway what kind of round kicks are those? There is no pivot, and no snap whatsoever, no power or speed, I mean they literally just toss their legs up there halfhazardly.




Well genius, you don't kick full power and speed to do hard body training. Those are conditioning kicks. It's a combination of isometric exercises, and "rebound training" to train the muscles and body parts to absorb punishment. In the second video, the sensei was using "testing kicks" to test the strength and postures... it was never designed to be an attack, simply a testing of their stance and body work.

As for the "bulletproof" training, my .357 will blow a hole all the way through you... iron shirt and all. People who try stunts like that die from terminal stupidity... if they have a weapon, it's aggravated stupidity. Calling "Mythbusters" isn't necessary.



_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#355660 - 11/27/07 02:38 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Don't be presumptuous, that story was not posted as anything NEAR fact. I said I just heard or actually read it somewhere and that I had no idea whether it was true or not just an ancedotal possibility (if that's even a term). But it's possible to live through, there's documented proof of several people living through shots to the head and body (or at least the head I know for sure, not sure about the body but I think so. Read NOT SURE)
People can and DO live through it occasionally, and logically, the more fibers of flesh (especially muscle) you have around the area that's being shot, the slower the bullet will travel as it penetrates. Maybe not much slower at all, but slightly. Because it has that much more to drive through.
As for the kicks, you don't have to use crappy technique to gauge your power. that just builds bad instincts IMO and experience (which I know is limited).
I do admit that using too much power is not good at the beginning but they had to be advanced, I mean come on, they were hitting themselves with BRICKS and they were a demo team which means they had to have at least a major portion of experts to look good enough.! And they can't take a padded kick to the body. Would good is taking hits with nearly NO power if you're advanced.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355661 - 11/27/07 05:49 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: Stormdragon]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

As for the kicks, you don't have to use crappy technique to gauge your power. that just builds bad instincts IMO and experience (which I know is limited).
I do admit that using too much power is not good at the beginning but they had to be advanced, I mean come on, they were hitting themselves with BRICKS and they were a demo team which means they had to have at least a major portion of experts to look good enough.! And they can't take a padded kick to the body. Would good is taking hits with nearly NO power if you're advanced.




Hi

They are testing their conditioning/ breathing. If you google up uechi ryu there is a 79 year old 10th dan taking kicks to his legs. They are also breaking baseball bats with their shins. Videos can be deceiving. If you maybe could find someone with conditioned shins and ask them to kick you lightly in the thigh. Most people tend to hobble around when that happens.

Jude

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#355662 - 11/27/07 06:08 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Stormdragon]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
There are sooooo many variables to consider...
range, barrel length, muzzle velocity, caliber, wind shear, load, ammo type - jacketed/non-jacketed, etc. etc.

Even a .22, in the right circumstances, can put a hole thru bone... so unless your skin and flesh is harder than bone, I wouldn't suggest trying it.

And if you're thinking of trying BB guns, DON'T. BB pellets at close range can be just as lethal. Rubber pellets used by prison guards and riot police have been known to kill. It doesn't have to penetrate flesh to cause damage.

As for armour piercing, dum dums, and hollow points... let's not even go there.

The only way your Iron Shirt will work is if I THROW the bullets at you.

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#355663 - 11/27/07 06:37 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: eyrie]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Every weapon I have, carry, or shoot will blow a hole completely through you... and unless you're depending on kevlar body armor, I wouldn't advise being on the wrong side of the gun at any point. Sure, there are anomolies of anything like bullets hitting the bone and skimming under the skin, but I don't think I'd depend on that kind of luck against firearms.

I shoot modern firearms with hot loads which are matched for both accuracy and self-defense, and I practice regularly at the range in the combat mode. You'd have to be luckier than a $hithouse rat to survive with a kevlar vest much less without one. Standard "combat" shooting puts two in the chest, two in the head.

It's a little tough to train against that... JMHO...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#355664 - 11/27/07 10:23 AM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I didn't say TRY it. Sheesh. Just stating observations.Wrist you're insane!
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355665 - 11/27/07 06:03 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Stormdragon]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Me?... YOU posted
Quote:

All jokes aside though, I've heard of one case where a guy got shot in the gut and lived, where the bullet didn't fully pierce his muscles. I believe it was Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams or someone who was shot with a .357 round by a State Trooper and had strong enough stomach muscles to stop it somewhat but it screwed him up pretty good. I just read about it in a book on boxing for self defense so who knows how much truth there is to the story. Anyone else hear of that?




Quote:

I had no idea whether it was true or not just an ancedotal possibility




I was just giving you a "real world scenario"... not advocating anything. People who stand in front of guns when they're fired get neat little round holes in them... some die, some survive... but I don't know of a single instance where the bullets bounced off. Even the kevlar vest doesn't stop the force penetration, only dissipates the penetration of the bullet and spreads the force over a larger surface area. It still knocks the crap out of you, and can damage internal organs. I don't know of anything other than .25 caliber and .32 caliber bullets that have "skimmed" the skull without killing the person hit in head shots. Even a .22 (which has better ballistics than either of those mentioned) will drop you like a stone.

The only cure for a gunfight is "superior firepower"... not iron shirt training. Spend some of that Quigong time learning to shoot fast, straight and center-mass.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#355666 - 11/27/07 06:26 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I was completely kidding about the insane part hence the smiley, and I definitely didn't say those roudns will bounce of flesh, just that the more musculature the slow the bullet will travel though it WILL NOT be slowed much.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355667 - 11/27/07 08:05 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Stormdragon]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Completely understood... that's why I phrased things like I did in the reply... i.e., "neat little round holes"...

You have to be careful when you post things like that, because there are people who have the superman complex and are stupid enough to try it. Wendy Bagwell used to tell people that when he was a kid, somebody gave him a superman cape, and he believed that he could fly... so he jumped off the garage and broke his leg. Nobody told him that he had to have the pants and body shirt to match...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#355668 - 11/27/07 08:47 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Hahahahahahahaha "No one told him he had to have the pants and body shirt to match" and don't forget tighty REDDIES on the OUTSIDE! Buahahahaha
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#355669 - 02/20/08 08:41 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest training? [Re: VietPanda]
Sigma37 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 14
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:

OK this is a serious question, just out of curiosity - is it actually possible to be able to resist a shot from the weakest gun available these days through Iron Vest training?



I read in 'ripleys believe it or not' that a guy who worked out heaps got shot, and the bullet didn't even penetrate his skin!




Please Read About The Boxer Rebellion! Many CMA Students Then Believed Iron-Shirt Training Would Render Bullets From Causing Harm Only To Be Shot Down In Droves By Western Forces.


Edited by Sigma37 (02/20/08 08:44 PM)

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#355670 - 02/20/08 09:04 PM Re: serious question - bulletproof Iron Vest train [Re: Gavin]
sopredictable Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 13
Loc: New Zealand
Quote:


This is an Iron Shirt demo from a UK lady called Joanna Zorya...much more use to Martial Artists than most of the crap posted:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4HdqtIsf-dI




Yes, but does it keep the bullets away???
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