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#355458 - 08/11/07 04:05 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: jpoor]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Hello again,

I was going to just let this thread die a quiet death as I am completely new to Swords and sword arts so I have very little knowledge from which to speak. However:

For those of you who are TRULY concerned about safety issues, I greatly appreciate the thoughts and concern. Put yourself in my shoes for a moment though if you would take the time.

First, My understanding of this sword is that it is somewhere in the 150-200 year old range and that it indeed has newer furniture. Once I learn how to properly take it apart and put it back together, I'll get the date off the tang simply because I am a CURIOUS creature, not because I feel the need to verify anything. In fact, I couldn't care less if it was made yesterday or 1000 years ago. It isn't meant to be some super special sword; the only requirements are that is is real, and my instructor wants us using sharp swords from the start.

Second, it is not my place to discuss business arangements of the school (here, in this school I am but a white belt in the unarmed style and today was my first sword class). Besides, money is not something often discussed in polite society anyway. ESPECIALLY if a third party is involved. My teacher made the business arangements, who I am I to disclose them?

An idea that was somewhat stated by an earlier poster is that there is a range of possibility here; either I got a really good deal, got completely ripped off, or somewehre in the middle. This is a utilitiy tool, not a museum piece.

Third, what good would it have done for me (who knows absolutley NOTHING) to have been present for the cleaning and inspection of the blade? The one thing I can think of is that I might have learned something. I assume however, that those things will be covered in class rather than one student at a time.

Bottom line, my instructor looked it over and I trust that if he thought it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have let me have it.

Just for the sake of argument, let's take this from the other side for a moment. Let's pretend that for some reason I doubted my instructor. It would be foolish for me to stay without resolving those doubts would it not?
Openly posting pictures of this sword in order to obtain opinions about it's "soundness" would be like a slap in the face to my instructor. Now, it turns out to be an awesome blade, in great shape and worth a truckload of money. What good is it if I have offended the man who will teach me to use it?

Ok, back to reality. I had actually intended to post pictures of it in a pure "Hey here's my new sord, ain't it cool" sort of way. However, now I can't really do that can I?

Now, back to the original purpose of my first post in this thread.

I just got a sword and had my first IaiJutsu class. I enjoyed it very much as it allowed me to see a side of my instrutor that I haven't seen as well as begin to learn something new. We spent the entire class covering safety, tradition, and manners. I really enjoy traditional, strict instruction.

Let's talk about that, shall we?

Thanks and Best,
jim
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#355459 - 08/11/07 05:47 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: jpoor]
kaien Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 16
I don't see how posting a picture of your (key word YOUR)sword is a slap in the face to him. And again, using a 200 year old sword for practice is a huge shame. How often does one use an antique to learn something? Since you are trying to be so logical, wouldn't a novice surely start with a novice tool? Swords are not supernatural, they do break down with age and repeated polishing. So apparently you have 100 - 200 year old sword that was hardly ever used, accept for perhaps only in polite society.

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#355460 - 08/11/07 06:00 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: kaien]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Simply posting a picture wouldn't have been, however posting one to "check up" after him. . . that would be.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#355461 - 08/11/07 09:07 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: jpoor]
Aeges Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 25
Jpoor, hello. I will not comment how I think the idea of practicing with an expensive antique is a bit odd; but I present to you another facet of this little picture debate.

I donít want to usurp your instructor
I donít want to debate the claim of authenticity.

I just want to see it. I mean, if it is real, a 150-200 year old sword, thatís something to see. They just donít make them like they used to (due to metalergic and engenerical improvments Iím sure) and to see it would be a nice thing, especially since you went out of your way to make us aware of this purchase.


So would it be possible to get a picture, just to see the shiney?

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#355462 - 08/11/07 09:38 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: Aeges]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Jpoor: didn't mean to ask questions to put you on the spot. Hope you enjoy the class...whatever you get out of it. Personally, while I study kobudo, I'm an illiterate when it comes to sword arts. Having come across one in a real life scenario, I have a 'healthy respect' for them, and koryu. My only interest is concern for anyone learning on a 'live' blade.

Good luck in your sword studies.

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#355463 - 08/11/07 10:42 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: jpoor]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
jpoor

And with all due respcet nobody here is a mind reader---we only know what you tell us.

Sorry if I stepped on your toes--was not my intention.

I mentioned that yo ushould be there for the cleaning and inspection because that would IMO, be the perfect time/place to provide you with the very information as to what to look for--how to clean it--how to take it apart if needed---all the stuff that you currently don't know.

The weapon is there, he is inspecting it ANYWAY--would have been a good chance to kill 2 birds with one stone + go over the "care and feeding" of the weapon.

But different strokes for different folks.

I sincerely meant you and you teacher no disrespect--again, sorry if you got that impression.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#355464 - 08/11/07 11:29 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: cxt]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
So what did you NAME it, lol?


-John

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#355465 - 08/12/07 05:46 AM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: JKogas]
kaien Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 16
http://swordforum.com/summer99/katana-shopping.html (Article location)


Shopping Among Antique Swords

Due to television and other influences, some may feel that the older the sword they acquire, the better the weapon. For martial arts use, purchase of an antique weapon is not recommended for various reasons. Firstly, old swords that are in an affordable price range tend to have problems - major rust and corrosion, forging flaws, and other things that can detrimentally affect the structural integrity of a sword. At various points in history, many swords were effectively mass-produced to meet demand and are thus of considerably lesser quality than the singular hand-made custom swords - and a beginner's inability to discern such blades from others can be a tremendous purchasing challenge.

Yet another reason is that some antique blades have been so polished down (for purposes of restoration over the generations) that the soft core steel is exposed (or about to be exposed) at which point such a blade has little value as a weapon and is thus "retired" from service! Antique katana should always be respected for their intrinsic and historic value because a lack of respect means depriving future generations from enjoying these relics (the Samurai saw himself as merely a temporary custodian of the blade, like one link in a long chain).

I could have misunderstood, but I felt you implied that any concern we or I showed was less than sincere. Here is a great article and I think explains it well. People who have that many Antique swords to sell do it for a living. People don't give things away that could otherwise fetch sometimes what some make in an entire year, or at least a third of that. They got them somewhere, and I would be willing to bet they weren't free.

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#355466 - 08/12/07 08:10 AM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: JKogas]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
LOL. I didn't, but if I had, maybe "triple X" would have been appropriate given the artwork on the tsuba and all.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#355467 - 08/14/07 08:07 PM Re: My sword got here :D [Re: jpoor]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Disclaimer: I'm not a sword expert. I have seen many antique swords in museums in Japan. I have seen 3 antique swords in family & friend's homes. I took Iai-do for only a short time.

I have never heard of using an antique or even a new live blade for beginner practice either. The dull, practice blades are adequate for beginners because weight & dimensions are close enough to real to learn.

Also, unless you're 5' tall, this "antique" will be too short for most modern westerners. Too long or too short daito will make bad technique.

I also believe that all antique katana should be returned to Japan. Too many have been destroyed or spirited away due to post-WWII "precautions".

From the little I know, I don't believe you have a "honto no katana". If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words...just sounds a little fishy.

owari
_________________________
Ed Ichihara Smith - Shukokai

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