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#354356 - 09/13/07 11:37 PM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Ed_Morris]
Koryu Uchinadi Offline
Tanmei
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 65
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Quote:

always two sides to every encounter, and I wasn't there. If you are trying to show that you were somehow 'more connected' - it doesn't phase or impress me. I gave up hanging on lineage, rank and working for privaledge after I realized I just like training without politics or power-plays.

I've had enough of the rat-race in my private-sector professional career - now I actually enjoy my work in the public-sector. Taking out the rat-race in MA, has the same effect with the reverse terminology.

about disagreeing with my tegumi take...which part do you disagree with? the part where I mention that I'm a geek?




Are you suggesting that there is a side to my encounters with Shinpo and Kimo that is being misrepresented in my response?

By the sound of things it would appear as if I am certainly far more "connected" than you and Kimo are... but then again the MA's have been my life's pursuit both personally and professionally...big deal! I don't hang on pedigree or lineage nor do I believe it has "anything" to do with functionality.

Was it that I know these guys personally that irritated you? Or perhaps that I, like you, didn't refer them by the term "sensei" --- hence the snide remarks?

Either way, immpressing you is not my "agenda." Personally, I could care less who you are only that you seem to want to belittle that which I find very valuable and important.

That you've given up on rank in pursuit of "just training" also means nothing to me either --- is that to suggest that everyone who does "pursue or receive rank" isn't as good as you are, or are inferior? Give it a rest ED...let's not go down this path nd keep it polite. Otherwise, we can take it over to Karate-"Budo"
_________________________
Kind regards,

Patrick McCarthy
Hanshi 8th Dan
International Ryukyu Karate Research Society
www.koryu-uchinadi.com
A link to the past is your bridge to the future
Life isn't about finding yourself -- it's about creating yourself. - GBS

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#354357 - 09/13/07 11:40 PM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Ed_Morris]
Koryu Uchinadi Offline
Tanmei
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 65
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Quote:

btw, I just found out what you were talking about with the 'karate-sudo' forum reference earlier. Ro-assalt and Gene-pool, are braindead one-dimensional traditionalists. I was banned from their virual moshpit last year when confronting their stupidity...so if you were bashed there, don't worry, Genie always deletes threads to cover his stupified tracks.




Bashed? Hmm, Ed, that would be putting it mildly

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#354358 - 09/13/07 11:42 PM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Let's refrain from threats to leave this site for that one.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#354359 - 09/13/07 11:43 PM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I was being polite. as soon as I mentioned Kimo Wall, you took it down another path....which I simply explained to you - isn't important to me. If you had mentioned seniors in your line of study, I certainly would not have attempted to put them down as you appeared to do to mine.
and why, btw?
because you disagree with my take on tegumi?

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#354360 - 09/13/07 11:56 PM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Ed_Morris]
Koryu Uchinadi Offline
Tanmei
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 65
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Quote:

I was being polite. as soon as I mentioned Kimo Wall, you took it down another path....which I simply explained to you - isn't important to me. If you had mentioned seniors in your line of study, I certainly would not have attempted to put them down as you appeared to do to mine.
and why, btw?
because you disagree with my take on tegumi?




While Kimo may be senior to you he is not my senior. Of course, the late Shinpo certainly was, however, I hardly see how relating the instance qualifies as putting him/them down. Please explain?

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#354361 - 09/14/07 12:29 AM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I believe Kimo Wall started training in the late 1940's, and he's your senior in age. not sure in what sense he's not your senior.

You can read your post again - it came off as minimizing Kimo Wall while highlighting your connections... We don't want to continue down that path. I told you, I only met Kimo Wall once, his class was great and he was pleasant.
I've never met you, but your work seems great and you seem like you'd be pleasant in person.

Thats all I can really say about it....but I think this thread is suppossed to be about Karate in some way, maybe concentrating on that will sway it away from gossip?

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#354362 - 09/14/07 12:48 AM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: BrianS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Yet no one has specifically pointed out which move in Naihanchi or any other kata is a groundfighting technique and what technique it is?

There are already so many varying techniques of every move, now some of them are armbars, double leg takedowns, sprawls, and ofcourse, the guard.

Why the need for justification for the crosstraining? Why not just train what it is?

I don't see BJJ folks claiming deadly skin ripping kata that came from rolling on the ground.






Hello
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#354363 - 09/14/07 12:52 AM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Ed_Morris]
Koryu Uchinadi Offline
Tanmei
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 65
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Quote:

I believe Kimo Wall started training in the late 1940's, and he's your senior in age. not sure in what sense he's not your senior.

You can read your post again - it came off as minimizing Kimo Wall while highlighting your connections... We don't want to continue down that path. I told you, I only met Kimo Wall once, his class was great and he was pleasant.
I've never met you, but your work seems great and you seem like you'd be pleasant in person.

Thats all I can really say about it....but I think this thread is suppossed to be about Karate in some way, maybe concentrating on that will sway it away from gossip?




Ed, you're sounding more and more like a politician ... I wouln't believe all you read or hear.

FYI, Kimo seemed like a very nice fellow...and we certainly got on well --- "I liked him." Hope that helps

Let's call it a night and resume later.

Oyasumi na sai

Patrick

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#354364 - 09/14/07 01:02 AM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: BrianS]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Ever feel like you're just being ignored.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#354365 - 09/14/07 01:07 AM Re: Tegumi-related [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

... I wouln't believe all you read or hear.




exactly the reason for my questioning Tegumi in the historical sense.

I'm going to sleep as well...but I already had this response, so I'll post it now. earlier you said that you didn't agree with my take on Tegumi....

(italic was 'my take' you didn't agree with, quoted is showing how we actually do agree)


you've learned in this thread that the old cultural tegumi died out. the cultural practice was not propegated.
Quote:


1. In your opinion, did tegumi survive as a practice/art in and of itself through the 19th-20th century to present day? (not as a blend or a redefinition, but as a practice of it's own).

PM: No, as a tradition, I don't believe it did; If it has...it's the best kept secret in Okinawa. As described in Grandmaster's book ["Tales...] it ultimately became a clinch-style form of garmet wrestling called Okinawan/Ryukyu Sumo [not to be confused with Japanese Sumo] and quietly fell dormant. That said, I have seen it re-enacted at the odd festival in Okinawa.




looks like we agree on that.



the 'Tegumi' today is defined by whatever the user of the term wishes for it to be.
loosely, people generally mean it to be some type of grappling.

Quote:

Originally a plebeian form of grappling popular during Okinawas old Ryukyu Kingdom, McCarthy sensei
assigned this defunct name to a collection of two-person trapping, checking and conditioning drills hes brought together from a variety of sources in 1992.




looks like we agree on that as well.


The reason they don't just say 'grappling drills' is because an old term like 'tegumi' sounds sexier and more authentic. why? perhaps because of the broad perception that older=better. mystique. pride in karate heritage. any/all of the above. who knows.

- Well, if tegumi died out then why resurrect that particular term? maybe your answer is here:
Quote:

Hmm, I'm guessing the name change was a Tuttle marketing dept decision??!!



marketing decision. I think we can agree on that.


The bottom line is, if you enjoy doing it...who cares what it's called. Let the historians and geeks like me fight over the sematics.

I take the last part is a 'gimme' that we agree.


ja, mata ashita ne...

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