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#354023 - 08/03/07 03:43 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH VID [Re: JMWcorwin]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

If you understand the basics and can develop good skill in grappling you can defeat a superior grappler with effective striking and positioning.




Exactly.

But your explanations still all revolve around learning grappling. That's all I was trying to say. If you don't have at least an understanding of the techniques, you don't stand much chance in that scenario.




But sprawling IS grappling. So if you learn to sprawl you are learning to grapple. And that is my point. To defeat a grappler you must have some knowledge of grappling, and this comes from learning grappling. The bottom line is that if you are a striker and you don't know how to grapple at all you will be in for a long day, period.

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#354024 - 08/03/07 03:44 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH VID [Re: medulanet]
JMWcorwin Offline
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Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Right.

What did I say that didn't match that?

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#354025 - 08/03/07 04:04 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH VID [Re: JMWcorwin]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
The thing that didn't match was your implication that a sprawl and brawl striker is a "true stand up fighter" and one should not have to learn grappling to be an effective stand up fighter.

Quote:

Exactly.

But your explanations still all revolve around learning grappling. That's all I was trying to say. If you don't have at least an understanding of the techniques, you don't stand much chance in that scenario.

I don't remember exactly the guy's name, but there was an ex-pro boxer, Frank something, who fought one of Ruas' guys in an early UFC. He brutally beat this guy down with good sprawling and knee/elbow strikes when the BJJ guy would shoot. Lots of blood. He never submitted, but they did stop it because of the amounts of blood and where it was coming from. That's the perfect example of a true stand up fighter beating a BJJ fighter..... Don't let it go to the ground. Easier said than done though.

*sorry I don't remember the fighters' names,,, brain on slow mo this morning.




Then I pointed out that sprawling is wrestling and a striker must learn such grappling skills to be effective against a grappler. And then you said "Right." So at first you disagreed with me, then agreed, and then disagreed again all in one statement. And now you are agreeing. Am I missing something, are we talking about the same thing, or are you disagreeing with anything I have posted in this thread?

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#354026 - 08/03/07 04:10 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH VID [Re: medulanet]
JMWcorwin Offline
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Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Nah,

Didn't mean to imply that. I was just trying to give an example of a stand up fighter with a good understanding of grappling technique/defense to illustrate my statement of

"But your explanations still all revolve around learning grappling. That's all I was trying to say. If you don't have at least an understanding of the techniques, you don't stand much chance in that scenario."

_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#354027 - 08/03/07 04:22 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH VID [Re: JMWcorwin]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Okay, I get it now.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

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#354028 - 08/03/07 08:51 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH [Re: Usenthemighty]
Shonuff Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
Usen

What precisely one does depends entirely on what is happening. In meds vid of cro cop kneeing the guy, he escapes several attempts at takedown before the knee. I would suggest hitting the guy before he regains his balance. Also one can use strikes to keep a grappler on the back foot. There's lots of stuff but its all very situational and no none of it is simple.

Personally I'm not sure about the idea that that any control/manipulation knowledge should be classed as wrestling. It is only the rules of modern sports like boxing that seperated the ways of holding and disturbing balance/weight from striking.
_________________________
It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

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#354029 - 08/03/07 09:34 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH [Re: Shonuff]
Gothrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 33
Wouldnt keeping distance from a BJJ fighter work? Once they get close in the can get you in an underhook, take u down, sweep u, whatever. But if u kept ur distance, with say, kicks or striking if u hold the reach advantage, would that've worked?
_________________________
Mind Over Matter

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#354030 - 08/03/07 09:40 PM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH [Re: Gothrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Wouldnt keeping distance from a BJJ fighter work?




Quote:


..But if u kept ur distance, with say, kicks or striking if u hold the reach advantage, would that've worked?





Like on the other side of the street? Sure that would work! Kind of like Hommick vs. Gurgel - don't engage and just stay away from them, working pot-shots. You'll stay safe that way for certain.

Unless they can play the same game. Then you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.



-John

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#354031 - 08/04/07 02:12 AM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH [Re: medulanet]
VietPanda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 103
First of all, I thank you all very, very much for the thoughtful replies!

Secondly, regarding this:
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Avoiding being taken down can be done purely with close striking methods



Such as what? Besides kneeing the exact time they shoot in striking does noting. It at least does noting to me and my training buddies when we double leg take down. Plus when Royce changed levels that was the time he had to sprawl and clinch up. Jason Delucia is 33-20-1 thats an ok record. I mean its not like 22-2-0 Rich Franklin(my favorite fighter), but he's ok.




Usen, maybe you should join Crocop's School of Fighting. His method of knee striking a wrestler shooting in is very effective.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0



That was an amazing video, I can clearly see how that knee was extremely destructive to the wrestler.
However, he did eventually end up grappling him.
Fortunately this fight was in the ring, in a real street fight, some people might even use 'dirty' tactics like biting or eye gouges once they grapple their opponent.
What could we do then?

Some people have mentioned learning some grappling techniques, so if I do, what art/technique should i learn/use?

Once again, thanks for the input!
_________________________
~Viet Panda~

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#354032 - 08/04/07 03:03 AM Re: What to do if grappled by BJJ fighter? - WITH [Re: VietPanda]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
For the best training move to Vegas and train at Xtreme Couture. If that is not an option learn bjj/submission grappling from a wrestling perspective, which will teach you to not pull guard, but grapple to gain a dominant position either on top or on their feet and punch your opponent in the face.

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