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#352914 - 07/24/07 01:43 PM A Miracle
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
What's a miracle?

A miracle is when a woman does two jobs at the same time while still able to spend time with her kids.

A miracle is when a teenager is able to support himself while studying by solely doing part time job while at the same time still excelling in studies.

A miracle is when a single-parent can raise his daughter to become a good and responsible lady (Girls, you know that we guys knows next to nothing about raising kids, let alone girls).

A miracle is when a low-income parents is able to buy a house and pay off the mortgage for the future of their kids.

A miracle is being able to wake up in the morning and enjoy toasts in a land where rice is predominant (yes, that's me).

A miracle is when you're able to live without having to be in debt to anyone.

A miracle is when you're able to achieve success in your career without having to put more importance of your work over your family. Basically, being able to achieve success while coming home to see your family.

All those are miracles in my opinion, feel free to add. I'm drunk as well, but oh well. I'll be honest, I'm no.2, no.3 and the last.

I feel I'm making miracles happen everyday.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352915 - 07/24/07 01:56 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Nice post, Tomas. Good to remember the "everyday" miracles.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#352916 - 07/24/07 02:38 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Yeah,

I see people praying to whatever deities they have wishing that they'll win the lottery and get an 'easy-way-out' when they're already making miracles. Low-income family sending their child through college, so that that kid may one day become an economist, lawyer, doctor, etc etc, is already a miracle without comparison.

I think it's a miracle I can wake up and get to work every morning. I'm a lazy [censored], and it's something that's quite amazing to be honest.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352917 - 07/24/07 03:52 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Don't get me wrong here. I think SOME of the listed achievements are commendable.

BUT

to call them miracles is waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line. All the above are totally out of context with the definition of a miracle.

Getting shot in the head and living - a miracle

eating toast in the morning - not a miracle

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#352918 - 07/24/07 04:11 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

eating toast in the morning - not a miracle




How about if you use Miracle Whip?
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#352919 - 07/24/07 04:36 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dereck]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Only if the Miracle whip used was involved in some kind of miracle. i.e the jar survived a horrendous plane crash.

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#352920 - 07/24/07 04:51 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Special one,

Try eating a sandwich in a country where rice is predominant. You think eating a white piece of bread is easy here? It's a luxury. That's a miracle.

Getting shot in the head and living. That's a miracle, yet you only allow yourself to see those type of miracle, these little things that happen in your daily life, you just don't appreciate them. No offense, but you're so narrow-minded, it's not even funny.

Next?

-Taison out


Edited by Taison (07/24/07 04:54 PM)
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352921 - 07/24/07 05:04 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
GriffyGriff Offline
Good Egg,
Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 414
Loc: Earth
Farting in bed and NOT getting into trouble.

Children ACTUALLY giving you your change back.
(No, come to think of it, that would never happen).
_________________________
I am NOT homophobic... I am NOT afraid of my own house!

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#352922 - 07/24/07 05:17 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Narrow-minded? Grow up and leave the name calling aside, its no way to get your point across in a debate.

None of them things are miracles. Not because I don't appreciate little things in my life or because I have "beef" with you, but because they actually don't fit the definition of what a miracle is. It's like listening to Alanis Morissette "Ironic" without having to wash your ears after.

Your so-called "miracles" are either the result of hard-work
and some small fortune(not a miracle). The use of "miracle" cheapens and trivializes the word.

Appreciate the small things in your life that you work for and are fortunate to have, but recognize that the word miracle is an inappropriate description of them.

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#352923 - 07/24/07 05:31 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Grow up and leave the name calling aside, its no way to get your point across in a debate.



I wasn't debating. Rule no.1, Taison doesn't debate, he puts whatever he wants on the board and you can take it or leave it. If you don't like it, leave.

Quote:

Your so-called "miracles" are either the result of hard-work and some small fortune(not a miracle)


In our society, which has degraded over the course of around 10 years, seeing all these little thing is a miracle. You know how many people choose abortion? It's a joy to see people actually putting dedication on trying to make life the best it can be of the situation.

Quote:

but because they actually don't fit the definition of what a miracle is.


Define a miracle.

Here's my definition;
Quote:

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality


Read 3 and 4.

Next?

Please put sensible examples. Farting in bed and not getting caught? Sigh~

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352924 - 07/24/07 05:50 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
I can see many of the points in the OP fitting definitions 3&4. I'm betting our challenger is more in favor of 1&2 (probably 2) or just looking or a spat.

I have to admit though, I did think many times as I read "miracle? no, not really." Thankfully, I took a second to realize that it's not my point of view that counts.

Lesson to the challenger: When you start bantering about the "definition" of a word, someone will whip out a dictionary and prove themselves right


Farting in bed without getting caught is easy; sleep alone, or blame it on the dog
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#352925 - 07/24/07 06:09 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Take it, leave it or secret option number 3- criticize it.

"Here's my definition;"
Or dictionary.com's.

Defining VERY mundane things like eating toast as a miracle trivializes the impact of the word.

Definition of the word is open to interpretation. If you want use the word to describe eating toast, people managing just to get by with tight resources and women not having abortions, fair enough. Don't expect people to stand by not to say these are regular occurances. For me they are. Therefore, not provoking wonder. So when I hear someone calling them miracles I'll say they're wrong.

As stated I'm not saying they're not commendable or shouldn't be appreciated but describing them as miracles is OTT.

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#352926 - 07/24/07 06:25 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I think your post Taison was nice and very up lifting. For people to overcome road blocks in life and to rise above them is very commendable and should set an example for the many out there that lose those battles as they see them as not winnable. However I agree with The_Special_One, I would not consider these miracles, or at least not the word miracle in the sense that I've grown to associate the word to; miracle = miraculous = supernatural.

I'm sure if we looked at the actually meaning of this word it would most certainly encompass what you consider as a miracle so I would not argue that they are not miracles to others, it is rather just a word association.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#352927 - 07/24/07 08:12 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dereck]
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
The human body itself is a miracle.

Waking up and breathing everyday is a miracle.

This awesome planet we live on is a miracle.

So i guess that makes everything that happens inside of this place called earth is therefore a miricale.
_________________________
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. 2 Tim. 4:7

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#352928 - 07/24/07 10:20 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Life is a miracle. Life is a miracle in every breath you take. It's a miracle when the man who gets shot in the head and lives and it's a miracle when I eat a good apple. If you can't see the miracle in the mundane, then fair enough, but some of us beleive it's there.

==Chris


Edited by Ames (07/24/07 10:21 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#352929 - 07/24/07 11:37 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Ames]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ames, you're my man!

Special_One, by "my definition" I meant the definition that I use. Yes' it's from dictionary.com.

Gojuwarrior, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but yeah, you're right. The reason that this world was created is a miracle.
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352930 - 07/25/07 04:40 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
I appreciate the "stop and smell the roses" sentiment. Your optimism is a great, and the world is definitely a better place with more people like you.

My only problem is the clichéd phrasing taking the impact of the word away. This stems from my work in college. I'm writing a thesis on a famine. I'm reviewing the definition of the word "famine" at the moment. Overuse of this word in the 20th century cheapened it as a term, i.e describing food emergencies as famines. In modern days the word has lost a lot of its impact. So the public hear famine and the response is largely the same, regardless of whether its a few hundred in Malawi suffering or a few hundred thousand in Darfur.

I'm not looking to spark a debate about famines but parallels exist with the casual use of "miracle".

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#352931 - 07/25/07 07:45 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
No sarcasim here brother, this planet just being here is a miricale, just look at all the planets surrounding us.....
_________________________
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. 2 Tim. 4:7

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#352932 - 07/25/07 07:50 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: gojuwarrior1]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
more of an impossibly minute series of chances than a miricle.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#352933 - 07/25/07 08:09 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: crablord]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
For me, just being left alone with out people trying to pry their way into your life and making you feel guilty over just trying to be left alone would be a miracle.
That's all I want, to be left alone but for some reason people always show up wanting to know how I am, what I'm doing or they try to involve themselves in my personal life with no possible benefit to themselves, even after enough hints they still try it.

What does it take for a person to be alone in the world? I don't want to personally socialize with anyone right now, I just want to live as the faceless person nobody remembers for now, I don't get what it is about me that makes people want to try and get involved with me.
E-mails, texts, phone calls, letters, word of mouth.
It's ridiculous that a person who wants solitude should have to put up with this.
I have no amazing qualities, I'm not particularly fond of meeting people and I keep myself to myself, what's going on?
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352934 - 07/25/07 08:14 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
maybe their trying to save you from yourself

im in the opposite situation
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#352935 - 07/25/07 08:22 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Quote:

For me, just being left alone with out people trying to pry their way into your life and making you feel guilty over just trying to be left alone would be a miracle.
That's all I want, to be left alone but for some reason people always show up wanting to know how I am, what I'm doing or they try to involve themselves in my personal life with no possible benefit to themselves, even after enough hints they still try it.

What does it take for a person to be alone in the world? I don't want to personally socialize with anyone right now, I just want to live as the faceless person nobody remembers for now, I don't get what it is about me that makes people want to try and get involved with me.
E-mails, texts, phone calls, letters, word of mouth.
It's ridiculous that a person who wants solitude should have to put up with this.
I have no amazing qualities, I'm not particularly fond of meeting people and I keep myself to myself, what's going on?





And yet, here you are
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#352936 - 07/25/07 10:42 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: jpoor]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
I'm talking about my personal life, not my internet life
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352937 - 07/25/07 10:54 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think 'miracles' only exist in one's perception. For example, I've been through some events (car crashes, attempted murder, etc.) and never considered them as miracles. However, watching an animal die on the road, or while hunting, or giving birth to one's kids...one becomes 'mindful in the moment' and hyperaware of the fragility of existance. It's part of a continuum of hyperawareness where everything appears to be 'special...just as it is'.

Insisting that laws of physics be broken to qualify as 'real miracles' totally undermines the availability of everyman experiencing them.

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#352938 - 07/25/07 11:17 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think 'miracles' only exist in one's perception. For example, I've been through some events (car crashes, attempted murder, etc.) and never considered them as miracles. However, watching an animal die on the road, or while hunting, or giving birth to one's kids...one becomes 'mindful in the moment' and hyperaware of existance. Along a continuum of hyperawareness where everything appears to be 'special...just as it is'. Insisting that laws of physics be broken to qualify as 'real miracles' totally undermines the availability of everyman experiencing them.

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#352939 - 07/25/07 11:22 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Taison,

I agree with the special one here.

I know it's semantice, but miracles are not everyday events.

I also know you are passionate about your views and when life is hard the little things that come along are great.

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#352940 - 07/25/07 12:36 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: crablord]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:



im in the opposite situation




You mean you won't leave them alone? or they try to get away from you?
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352941 - 07/25/07 07:03 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: BrianS]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
From the Free Dictionary:
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/miracle)

mir·a·cle(mr-kl)
n.
1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: "Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves" Katherine Anne Porter.
2. One that excites admiring awe.
3. A miracle play.

I think Taison and I are mostly talking about the second meaning of the word. I also think that we're taking this more from the Buddhist/Taoist Eastern perspective.


Edited by Ames (07/25/07 07:06 PM)

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#352942 - 07/26/07 12:46 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Ames]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

I also think that we're taking this more from the Buddhist/Taoist Eastern perspective.


You got a point there. I totally forgot that westerners take things a bit differently from easterners.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352943 - 07/26/07 02:10 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Taison]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Its like the word "awesome" and "cool" being spouted by people from age three and 'miraculously' stopped at age thirty. To be heard these days one needed to shout in someone's face and so verbal histrionics (a deliberate display of emotion for effect) are employed.

And so when we see a good performance of any kind, we cannot just say "good" anymore, we have to say 'that's awesome' Sadly the word "miracle" has found its way into the category of misused words. I can however see how a teenager in today's world who work and pay his own way through college with excellent grades at the end is certainly a miracle, what with all the attendant distractions to lead him/her astray, but is it miraculous?

Some people here are just being honestly etymological and has no wish to be insensitive by downgrading the examples you gave into mere events of extraordinary human achievements (which themselves must be seen within certain socio-cultural context to be meaningful as what is "extraordinary" in a third world country may just be mundane elsewhere)

Not too long ago an aeroplane was considered a miracle, in fact I still do when I wondered how a 20 tonne object can fly faster than the speed of sound, both of which I (a miracle of creation) could neither lift nor beat.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#352944 - 07/26/07 03:03 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
as in all my friends are wow addicts who dont drink and hate going to the movies.

TEH SUCK
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#352945 - 07/26/07 05:56 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Ames]
Al_Fernz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Ireland
Quote:


I think Taison and I are mostly talking about the second meaning of the word. I also think that we're taking this more from the Buddhist/Taoist Eastern perspective.




Very, very valid point.

I didn't think of that at all. Excuse any ignorance on my part towards your culture.

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#352946 - 07/27/07 05:00 AM Re: A Miracle [Re: Al_Fernz]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I'm Irish/Italian.
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#352947 - 07/27/07 10:11 PM Re: A Miracle [Re: Ames]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I'm Swede/Thai/Chinese and I'm catholic. Yes, I'm quite "white-washed".

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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