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#352389 - 07/22/07 07:57 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: medulanet]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

my point is that if you have no grappling skill then you will have a problem no matter what techniques are allowed to you.




Agreed and maybe I misundestood where you were going, my point is that MMA is not the test of a Martial Art, it may be "A" test of certain aspects sure.

Besides when in the real world am I going to let someone get ready before I try and hit them
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#352390 - 07/22/07 08:00 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: JKogas]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Bottom line folks, if you're not boxing and wrestling in your training (regardless of art), you're not training in my opinion.




I think you clarified when you mentioned style later in your post, but I would like this sentence a lot better if you said striking instead of boxing.

Small thing but I equate boxing with sport fighting and I don't apply striking in the same manner for self defense.
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#352391 - 07/22/07 08:09 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: Kimo2007]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Kimo -

I understand completely and by my statement (to clarify), I mean the "delivery system" of boxing and not necessarily the sport of boxing. I see them as being the same yet different obviously. We (the gym I run) practice what's been labeled as "dirty boxing" so it's DEFINITELY not the same ring sport (although I'm not downplaying any sport boxers in terms of ability either).

IMO, the delivery system of boxing can be used for jabbing the eyes, punching the throat, punching the groin, elbows, knees, grabbing the back of the neck and punching (illegal in "sport" boxing), etc.

We're on the same page Kimo.


-John

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#352392 - 07/22/07 08:15 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: Victor Smith]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

It is a very bad corruption of language to include the varions hand to hand disciplines as martial arts.




Victor, I couldn't agree more. I truly believe that most (if not all) martial arts now are really practiced as sports ie; with rules, one way or the other. I started a thread here a while back with the same idea:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=9#Post15926430

I think that acknowledging that all of us really do combat sports, as opposed to martial arts, would foster much more understanding between styles.
_________________________
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#352393 - 07/22/07 09:04 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: MattJ]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
MattJ,
I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I would term them "combat arts" rather than sports... not all combat training has rules, so that's my take on what we do.

My rules are simple...
if you're within 500 yards... 300 Winchester Magnum
if you're within 100 yards... 7.62x39 SKS
if you're within 200 feet... .40 caliber pistol
if you're within 50 feet... 9x18 Makarov, .357 or .40 cal
after that... we fight... and I plan to hit you with whatever I have left... empty hand techniques are for when I run out of ammunition...

Start early enough, and the questions like this are moot...



_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#352394 - 07/22/07 09:12 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: Kimo2007]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Kimo,

Communication is actually a channel issue. It has to go both ways to become more than noise.

Alfred Korzybski - General Semantics
1. The word is not the thing
2. The word is not all the thing
3. Words are self-reflexive.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#352395 - 07/22/07 09:17 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: wristtwister]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

MattJ,
My rules are simple...
if you're within 500 yards... 300 Winchester Magnum
if you're within 100 yards... 7.62x39 SKS
if you're within 200 feet... .40 caliber pistol
if you're within 50 feet... 9x18 Makarov, .357 or .40 cal
after that... we fight... and I plan to hit you with whatever I have left... empty hand techniques are for when I run out of ammunition...

Start early enough, and the questions like this are moot...





Thats nice Grady. No need to train martial arts at ALL right?! There are certainly FAR easier ways of inflicting punishment. Definitely no strain on the bod THAT way....


-John

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#352396 - 07/22/07 09:19 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: JKogas]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Just keeping things in perspective, John...


_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#352397 - 07/22/07 09:24 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: wristtwister]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I wonder about your perspective sometimes Grady.



-John

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#352398 - 07/22/07 11:11 PM Re: karate useless MA [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Someone else that has read Korzybski.

Quote:

Alfred Korzybski - General Semantics
1. The word is not the thing
2. The word is not all the thing
3. Words are self-reflexive.



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