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#352359 - 03/10/08 01:25 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: WuXing]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
At the kung fu school I attend, we spend about 1/3 of our time on ground techniques. The other 2/3rd are divided between strikes, throws, and chin na.

The ground fighting techniques are different then what I have practiced in BJJ. There are no clothing grabs, not the focus on sport techniques (more committed movements that does not allow for someone to tap out), the strikes feel better integrated with the grappling, there is less of an angle between fighters (I don’t know how to explain it, just feels different). All techniques are similar and interconnected in principal in that we may learn a standing technique, then learn how to apply it on the ground.

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#352360 - 03/10/08 03:23 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: everyone]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

At the kung fu school I attend, we spend about 1/3 of our time on ground techniques. The other 2/3rd are divided between strikes, throws, and chin na.

The ground fighting techniques are different then what I have practiced in BJJ. There are no clothing grabs, not the focus on sport techniques (more committed movements that does not allow for someone to tap out), the strikes feel better integrated with the grappling, there is less of an angle between fighters (I don’t know how to explain it, just feels different). All techniques are similar and interconnected in principal in that we may learn a standing technique, then learn how to apply it on the ground.




Hi

Do the ground techniques you are using come from Góuquán?

Thanks

Jude

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#352361 - 03/10/08 04:00 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: jude33]
everyone Offline
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Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Jude, I am not familiar with that term but the ground techniques I learn there come mostly from Mongolia and to a lesser extent China.

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#352362 - 03/11/08 02:21 AM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: everyone]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Jude, I am not familiar with that term but the ground techniques I learn there come mostly from Mongolia and to a lesser extent China.




I believe from my studies that Mogolian wrestling had a big influence in chinese wrestling therefore chinese arts.
But they dont seem to do much ground work. Least from the videos I have seen. I believe it was Dog Kung fu and Monkey Kung Fu that has ground techniques. Problem is I cant find much information on either of them.

It would help my studies if I could see some of the techniques you use. If you have any reference to them would there be a chance of you PM ing them?

Thanks

Jude

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#352363 - 03/11/08 05:53 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: jude33]
everyone Offline
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Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Jude, I sent a PM, not sure if it went thru because it's not showing up on my home page as sent. If for some reason you did not get it, let me know and I will try again.

I do not have any written materials but would be happy to describe in detail any techniques and do my best to answer other questions. I am very interested to hear if you (or anyone else)have found anything related in your studies.

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#352364 - 03/12/08 06:06 AM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: everyone]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Jude, I sent a PM, not sure if it went thru because it's not showing up on my home page as sent. If for some reason you did not get it, let me know and I will try again.

I do not have any written materials but would be happy to describe in detail any techniques and do my best to answer other questions. I am very interested to hear if you (or anyone else)have found anything related in your studies.




Be great

PM. came through,

Jude

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#352365 - 03/14/08 10:18 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: jude33]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Guess what - The DOG
Fukien Ground Boxing Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqpZT67cZZE&feature=related
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#352366 - 03/15/08 07:23 AM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: Victor Smith]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
I think the guys teaching on the video are good teachers.
Good music, good humour, great guys.

Quote:

Guess what - The DOG
Fukien Ground Boxing Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqpZT67cZZE&feature=related




Thanks Victor.

Educator extraordinaire.

I hope your students saw and appreciated the exceptional teaching skills you possess.

I also read your excellent article on the main web page of this site.

Jude



Edited by jude33 (03/15/08 07:27 AM)

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#352367 - 08/01/08 01:20 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: WuXing]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
I see often that people with a BJJ background expressing that there is only one way of effectively fighting on the ground, and of course, BJJ encompasses that way. The reasoning is that, as a human, there is only so many ways a person can move. To me, that is like saying there is only one way to dance.

I will attempt to describe a couple of ground fighting styles in general terms to illustrate this point:

In the KF styles I am practicing, there are no clothing grabs. Grabs are done to the bodies natural handles such as arm pits, jaw line, under ribcage etc… or the bend of the elbow is used to “grab”. The point of a throw is not to bring someone to the ground, it is to kill or maim them. We generally learn three ways of applying each throw depending on the intended result. The “sport” version is shown so we can practice with force in a “live” setting with resistance. Slapping the hand back and other breakfalls will not help a person if they are thown down in a killing/maiming type of throw. There are other counters we learn though.

On the ground, assuming that the throw did not do what it was intended to do, the fight continues. The Mongolian style will use its elbows to strike and manipulate the opponent and then reach out with hands to trap. The elbow to hand combinations are signature to this style. With the Tiger style, it is just the opposite. The hand/claw grabs and leverages off the elbow. This creates a tearing effect as it attempts the various breaks.

In BJJ, the pivot point between the two fighters is generally the hips. In contrast, the pivot point in these KF styles is more often the upper chest/neck. There are similarities in that arm bars and such are included in the various styles. But these are very distinctive styles. Just as Wing Chun and Boxing both punch, they are different arts.

It is difficult for me to put into words the differences. If I get the means of posting video, I will. An untrained eye might not pick up the differences and just say it’s all just wrasseling.

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#352368 - 08/02/08 04:22 PM Re: Ditang/ground techniques [Re: everyone]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I believe somebody mentioned it before but many CMA guys believe that they are so good at stand up that they can't even imagine themselves falling to the ground. And though sometimes it can be true, I don't see how they can neglect a certain aspect of fighting.

Southern Praying Mantis from what I know does not have any ground work. In fact most practictioners assume that a hit or 2 would prevent a take down. Though it can happen, they can also miss their attacks (they are trying to hit a moving target) and end up on the ground clueless of whats going on. I've never practice falling/rolling/anything involved with ground work in my Mantis training. You can safely assume that they develop their skill to the point that they won't go on the ground. I'm not that dumb so I've learned some grappling & ground work to fill in the gaps.

I don't like people with unopened minds....
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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