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#352306 - 07/21/07 04:12 PM Darn you leg kicks!
Leonine Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 191
So I'm helping my friend get ready for his Thai fight, so we're getting in some sparring time together. He takes a traditional muay thai stance and I take something of a low guard from boxing to utilize the shoulder roll.

We begin with a general testing phase, it's been awhile since we last sparred, and I find I can get my punches through his guard with some body-head stuff, and most of my kicks work pretty well. He tests with some hits, mostly one shot punches and kicks, which don't pose much threat to me. Anyway, it's been a few minutes, then he throws the leg kick. Catches me right on the thigh. So I try and re-taliate, he checks my leg and throws one back at me. SO for a few minutes, he's basically just throwing leg kicks at me, and I have to back up and circle around, effectively breaking my range.

Eventually I got a bit annoyed and started in-fighting him, which neutralized his leg kicks, but still! I've made my stance to give me the most offensive and defensive options that I desire, and now there's a glaring hole in them. So far, I have only three options. One is I check the kicks, which is not natural for me yet (and from guaging the power he's got on the bag, would REALLY hurt), I bring my forearm down to block the kicks (again, really hurt I would think), or I break range and circle around. Advice?

I'm also an MMA fighter, and am not likely to take advice that could not be applied there (sorry if that makes it difficult)

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#352307 - 07/21/07 06:34 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Leonine]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Try to check the kick with your foot, or shin block it. Do not use your forearm. You will get get clocked by his hands - if his kicks don't break your arm.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#352308 - 07/22/07 02:47 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Leonine]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Leg kicks, are they of the snap variety or roundhouse variety.

If it's the snap variety, just go in and 1-2 with your hands. If it's the roundhouse, I'd recommend you step back when he throws them and go in.

Checking those roundhouse kicks isn't adviced, neither is blocking unless you're used to blocking such hard kicks.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352309 - 07/24/07 06:48 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
If your having trouble blocking with the shin, hit him with a front kick every time he tries to throw the low leg, this should knock him off balance but you have to time it just right, but the best way is blocking with the shin, a couple
of solid shin blocks stops me trying to low leg kick people for a while!


Edited by shills11 (07/24/07 06:51 AM)
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

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#352310 - 07/24/07 11:44 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: shills11]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
From experience, I've tried retaliating when they were throwing the low kick. I BARELY got enough time to block them, and that's around 6 years of MT.

I don't advice blocking AT ALL. Call me weird, but in my opinion, the best block is not to get hit at all. A roundhouse, especially the low variety, will out-speed the front thrust simply due to mechanics. To perform a proper front thrust, you need to chamber your knee, and push out, whilst a roundhouse kick you can drag it into action, eliminating inefficient waste of energy, the unnecessary need to chamber to create force, etc etc.

The low kick will always be the ultimate kick. Some of the best fighters low kick will instantly hit you before you even knew what hit you. I've seen people hit with the low kick, and they didn't even notice, but when they tried to advanced, they crumpled down on the floor. I've seen some low kicks that literally introduced you to the floor.

Best thing against a low kick, is to keep distance, and move in with an attack when you pre-empt a low kick coming. Sometimes the best defense is an offense, and I live and breathe this commandment.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352311 - 07/24/07 05:33 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Leonine]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I'd use the foot parry it takes timing but its one of the safest less painful defense for the low leg kick. Another if you can swicht stance as he kicks and counter with a leg kick to the leg, he is standing on.

Another method is to fient and fake make him miss, and counter while he's gathering himself.

I've seen people jump them, but if they raise it or catch you jumping it can flip over into the ground, it won't hurt as bad because your legs not grounded but it does get tiring getting back up.

The move that takes the less effort is the shin parry, after 1 or 2 successful shin blocks, most skilled leg kickers will take out the standing leg.

Theres really no way to get around it you have to jump to the side and stay on top of him. Some can leg kick at the closest distance.

I'd leg kick him and then go inside.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#352312 - 07/25/07 12:54 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Neko456]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Low kicking is one of the best weapons of muai thai.
You will have to prepare to fight a thai boxer.
First of all you have to condition your shin, if you want to block a chin kick with your shin you will have to be able to take the blow without going down.

Start doing heavy bag drills where you kick on the Bottom (Hard part) of the bag with your shin. Use a piece of hard round wood to condition your shins, finally try kicking harder surfaces making sure you can kick with your shin with minimal pain. Banana trees are perfect for this ...but who has a banana tree now a days

When you fight try to see if you can block his kicks by using your shin against his inner thigh (Just above his knee) when he kicks the roundhounse lowkick. This will prevent you from having to block his shin with yours.

Front Kicks work sometimes but they are in my opinion
to slow as an effective countermeasure. Also if he knows you use front kicks to stop his low kicks he may fake you out and move in grabbing your leg while its out and sweeping your other foot.

I would try to block it first on his inner thigh with my shin, if that was too slow I would take it Shin on Shin.
(Make sure here that your foot is at a 90 degrees angle.
if your toes are pointing down you will not be able to stop the kick. Putting your foot at a 90 degrees angle when you raise your leg to parry with "lock" your leg and you will be able to take the hit.)

Finally if he is too fast I would shift my weight and rotate my leg when I fight him, in a manner where I take his kicks on different parts of my thigh and not same spot all the time.

Make sure if you are going to take the kick to go down a little bit on your stance so that you tighten your muscles.

For inner side low kicks just go with the flow and lift your
leg away from the kick following the path his kick is going.
This will prevent you from taking the damage you would take if you just took it standing.

PM me if you want more tips, this is getting to long

Meliam

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#352313 - 07/26/07 12:38 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Low kicking is one of the best weapons of muai thai.


A note; MUAY THAI.

Quote:

You will have to prepare to fight a thai boxer.


Can you people please stop saying Thai boxer. They're not Thai. If you want to say MUAY THAI BOXER, than say Muay Thai boxer, don't be a lazy bum and say "Thai boxer" because they're not a boxer from Thailand.

Quote:

Start doing heavy bag drills where you kick on the Bottom (Hard part) of the bag with your shin


Stupid exercise in my opinion. Just kick the bag normally, it's enough. Kicking the hard part will result in prolonged stress on the bones and it will make them brittle in the long run.

Quote:

Use a piece of hard round wood to condition your shins, finally try kicking harder surfaces


Another advice I'd advice against. No, don't do these things, they brittle your bones in the long run.

Quote:

I would try to block it first on his inner thigh with my shin, if that was too slow I would take it Shin on Shin.
(Make sure here that your foot is at a 90 degrees angle.
if your toes are pointing down you will not be able to stop the kick. Putting your foot at a 90 degrees angle when you raise your leg to parry with "lock" your leg and you will be able to take the hit.)


Says why western MT boxers loses most of the time against Thai boxers. You just haven't figured it out about the block and encourage shin to shin blocks. Tsk tsk.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352314 - 07/26/07 04:51 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

Quote:

Low kicking is one of the best weapons of muai thai.


A note; MUAY THAI.

Quote:

You will have to prepare to fight a thai boxer.


Can you people please stop saying Thai boxer. They're not Thai. If you want to say MUAY THAI BOXER, than say Muay Thai boxer, don't be a lazy bum and say "Thai boxer" because they're not a boxer from Thailand.

Quote:

Start doing heavy bag drills where you kick on the Bottom (Hard part) of the bag with your shin


Stupid exercise in my opinion. Just kick the bag normally, it's enough. Kicking the hard part will result in prolonged stress on the bones and it will make them brittle in the long run.

Quote:

Use a piece of hard round wood to condition your shins, finally try kicking harder surfaces


Another advice I'd advice against. No, don't do these things, they brittle your bones in the long run.

Quote:

I would try to block it first on his inner thigh with my shin, if that was too slow I would take it Shin on Shin.
(Make sure here that your foot is at a 90 degrees angle.
if your toes are pointing down you will not be able to stop the kick. Putting your foot at a 90 degrees angle when you raise your leg to parry with "lock" your leg and you will be able to take the hit.)


Says why western MT boxers loses most of the time against Thai boxers. You just haven't figured it out about the block and encourage shin to shin blocks. Tsk tsk.

-Taison out





Yo Taison

First of all, this post is not to disrespect you.

When I say kick the bottom part of the bag it is because I have seen many people kicking high where the content of the bag is not very hard. Personally I like a bag (Muay Thai) Style where the bottom part if fairly compact.

Thai Pads will also help there though.

I say Thai Boxer mostly because people know what I am talking about if I do. Since this is a MA forum I guess I should say Muay Thai the muai was a typo

I never had any issues with my bones, a few of the guys I know have broken their shins in fights tho. I always did the shin conditioning hitting the shin or rolling weights on the bones.

I did most of my preliminary Shin conditioning when I was still training Kyokushin karate in Europe. What do you do for shin conditioning yourself?

I did not recommend shin to shin block as the preferred way of blocking the kick. I prefer shooting my hips a bit forward towards my opponent in the blocks, trying to stop his kick by blocking his inner thigh with my shin in stead of taking a blow shin to shin. But shin to shin happens and its better to be able to take that kind of hits without going down.Finally I told him that is he could not prevent the kicks he should change his stance so that he did not got kicked in the same spot over and over.

Laterz

Meliam

PS you said writing Thai Boxer was lazy and you wrote MT Boxer hehe

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#352315 - 07/26/07 07:07 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
Quote:

Quote:

Low kicking is one of the best weapons of muai thai.


A note; MUAY THAI.

Quote:

You will have to prepare to fight a thai boxer.


Can you people please stop saying Thai boxer. They're not Thai. If you want to say MUAY THAI BOXER, than say Muay Thai boxer, don't be a lazy bum and say "Thai boxer" because they're not a boxer from Thailand.

Quote:

Start doing heavy bag drills where you kick on the Bottom (Hard part) of the bag with your shin


Stupid exercise in my opinion. Just kick the bag normally, it's enough. Kicking the hard part will result in prolonged stress on the bones and it will make them brittle in the long run.

Quote:

Use a piece of hard round wood to condition your shins, finally try kicking harder surfaces


Another advice I'd advice against. No, don't do these things, they brittle your bones in the long run.

Quote:

I would try to block it first on his inner thigh with my shin, if that was too slow I would take it Shin on Shin.
(Make sure here that your foot is at a 90 degrees angle.
if your toes are pointing down you will not be able to stop the kick. Putting your foot at a 90 degrees angle when you raise your leg to parry with "lock" your leg and you will be able to take the hit.)


Says why western MT boxers loses most of the time against Thai boxers. You just haven't figured it out about the block and encourage shin to shin blocks. Tsk tsk.

-Taison out




1. i am not thai, i will continue calling myself a thai boxer. come take the title from me.

2.try to block the low kick as high up your leg as possible. strive to make his shin meet your knee, and if you cant do that, try to move in as the closer you are the less power your opponent can kick you with. i still like the idea of front snap kicking him just to push him off balance when he kicks - long enough for you to close and use in fighting. you should be able to score a few hits after the front snap you throw due to lack of balance on his part.

3. perhaps you did not mean it, but i sensed a bit of over confidance and even arrogance in your post taison, tsk tsk. and yes, a westerner did figure out the "mysterious" thai way of blocking low kicks. please do not sell us short. i think it has been far too long since a ramon dekkers has visited your country.

take care and train hard.


Edited by formless (07/26/07 07:11 PM)
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#352316 - 07/26/07 07:10 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
When blocking leg kicks I prefer to simply push the knee of the incoming leg with either the flat of my foot (like a stomp kick) or the palm of my hand (followed by a simultaneous counter or a very ready guard).
The only time I would consider going shin to shin would be that either the other blocking methods aren't working and working against me, or that I'm up against one fast mofo who's kicks are getting to their target quicker than my hand/foot is getting to their knee.
But really I'd prefer not to block unless it's really needed, which is why foot work is very important so he misses you all together.

As for how I shin condition, well I think me, Taison and many other forum members and MAs are content with a tightly packed heavy bag, some a sand bag, but rarely will you see people hitting things that have zero 'give' in them.
Even back in the day when they used trees, the trees were stripped of their bark exposing the strong but 'soft' inner core.

Ps, if a person is a 'thai boxer', does this mean they only punch thai people? Ah, racism eh? that's how it's going down, right?
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352317 - 07/26/07 07:13 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
very nice point about the thai racism, and im not sure lowering your guard to block a kick is advisable, especially more than once >:D
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#352318 - 07/26/07 07:18 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:



1. i am not thai, i will continue calling myself a thai boxer. come take the title from me.

2.try to block the low kick as high up your leg as possible. strive to make his shin meet your knee, and if you cant do that, try to move in as the closer you are the less power your opponent can kick you with. i still like the idea of front snap kicking him just to push him off balance when he kicks - long enough for you to close and use in fighting. you should be able to score a few hits after the front snap you throw due to lack of balance on his part.

3. perhaps you did not mean it, but i sensed a bit of over confidance and even arrogance in your post taison, tsk tsk. and yes, a westerner did figure out the "mysterious" thai way of blocking low kicks. please do not sell us short. i think it has been far too long since a ramon dekkers has visited your country.

take care and train hard.




*gasps*

Oh no Taison! Are you going to let him speak to you that way? He just dissed you man!

Show this fool what time it is!
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352319 - 07/26/07 07:29 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:

very nice point about the thai racism, and I'm not sure lowering your guard to block a kick is advisable, especially more than once >:D




Well, I find that whilst their on one leg and having their kick blocked they can't move in a way to strike effectively.

A: because they're on one leg.
B: because their body is tilted back slightly meaning that they can't turn their body all that well also meaning that unless they want to fall over, they're not going to be able to lean away from "ole bullhammer"
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#352320 - 07/26/07 11:26 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Hey Formless

Moving in close would help here but I think a person that is not used to Muay Thai style fighting would be in for a rude awakening when they get close and the Thai Boxer starts clinching?

Out of the fire and into the frying pan hehe.

Take care all,

Meliam

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#352321 - 07/27/07 12:46 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
mikado - eventually a smart opponent will see you blocking kicks with your arms and feint a kick to lower your guard and open up a can on you with his hands.

meliam - didnt the original poster say hes helping his buddy prepare for a fight? hopefully he has somewhat of a basic idea of the fighting ranges of muay thai, otherwise im afraid he wont be much help to his buddy
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#352322 - 07/27/07 12:53 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

meliam - didnt the original poster say hes helping his buddy prepare for a fight? hopefully he has somewhat of a basic idea of the fighting ranges of muay thai, otherwise im afraid he wont be much help to his buddy




Good point. hehe,

Laterz

Meliam

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#352323 - 07/27/07 09:38 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

come take the title from me.


Sigh.. Easy for you to say, you live in another part of the world. If you ever come to Thailand, PM and I'll arrange a seminar, and you're welcome to come and learn a few stuff and maybe some friendly sparring.

Quote:

i am not thai, i will continue calling myself a thai boxer.


Which is plain ignorance. Then from now on I'll call myself a Swedish businessman. Whereever I go, I'll introduce myself as a Swedish businessman. Does that sound stupid? If you think so, then you might need to re-consider your so called "title". If you want to wear the name with pride, then you ought to call yourself a "MUAY THAI BOXER" but it's just semantics. I still think "Thai boxer" sounds stupid as it basically means either; a boxer with thai nationality, or a guy who boxes thai. I'm half thai, so I kind of don't like the latter.

Quote:

a westerner did figure out the "mysterious" thai way of blocking low kicks.


Actually, no you didn't. The secret of a good low shin block is to move in when you block, sometimes you even have the option of angling your knee towards his thigh, to cause pain when he kicks, this however requires skill. Now, very few western kickboxers know this because simply, they weren't taught this. I've seen some quality boxers who did know this because simply, they trained in another MA before MT. The cause they don't know these subtle tricks? Thai coaches don't like teaching away all secrets to foreigners. I can guarantee you something; try going to a MT camp in Thailand. After 4 years, I can say you're beginning to learn the real deal, but the thai kid next to you? By that time he's already very far up the ladder.

Arrogance? Over-confidence? Nope, I'm just stating facts. I'm also over-generalizing because simply, if you take the whole western MT scene as a whole, it's totally horrible and ridiculous. The only country I'd learn MT beside Thailand, is England. In the US, there's WAAAY too many "Thai boxing" schools which are basically westerners who learnt MT in thailand for a month or two and set up their own gym in USA, and then posts hundreds of photograph of his so called "master" in Thailand.

When going to a school, all you need to ask them is their lineage. However, I'd be more focused on their achievements.

Oh,
Rule no. 1: Taison is never wrong
Rule no. 2: If Taison is wrong, refer to rule no.1


-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352324 - 07/28/07 12:33 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
Quote:

Quote:

come take the title from me.


Sigh.. Easy for you to say, you live in another part of the world. If you ever come to Thailand, PM and I'll arrange a seminar, and you're welcome to come and learn a few stuff and maybe some friendly sparring.

Quote:

i am not thai, i will continue calling myself a thai boxer.


Which is plain ignorance. Then from now on I'll call myself a Swedish businessman. Whereever I go, I'll introduce myself as a Swedish businessman. Does that sound stupid? If you think so, then you might need to re-consider your so called "title". If you want to wear the name with pride, then you ought to call yourself a "MUAY THAI BOXER" but it's just semantics. I still think "Thai boxer" sounds stupid as it basically means either; a boxer with thai nationality, or a guy who boxes thai. I'm half thai, so I kind of don't like the latter.

Quote:

a westerner did figure out the "mysterious" thai way of blocking low kicks.


Actually, no you didn't. The secret of a good low shin block is to move in when you block, sometimes you even have the option of angling your knee towards his thigh, to cause pain when he kicks, this however requires skill. Now, very few western kickboxers know this because simply, they weren't taught this. I've seen some quality boxers who did know this because simply, they trained in another MA before MT. The cause they don't know these subtle tricks? Thai coaches don't like teaching away all secrets to foreigners. I can guarantee you something; try going to a MT camp in Thailand. After 4 years, I can say you're beginning to learn the real deal, but the thai kid next to you? By that time he's already very far up the ladder.

Arrogance? Over-confidence? Nope, I'm just stating facts. I'm also over-generalizing because simply, if you take the whole western MT scene as a whole, it's totally horrible and ridiculous. The only country I'd learn MT beside Thailand, is England. In the US, there's WAAAY too many "Thai boxing" schools which are basically westerners who learnt MT in thailand for a month or two and set up their own gym in USA, and then posts hundreds of photograph of his so called "master" in Thailand.

When going to a school, all you need to ask them is their lineage. However, I'd be more focused on their achievements.

Oh,
Rule no. 1: Taison is never wrong
Rule no. 2: If Taison is wrong, refer to rule no.1


-Taison out




when you pratice business in sweden, i will have no problem with you calling yourself a swedish businessman. i practice a thai martial art, so i will refer to myself as a thai boxer. if i had the money/time to make a visit to thailand, i would have done so a long time ago. unfortunatley, school and work is more pressing at the moment.

and as i stated above, my way to block shin kicks require you to close distance and get close, because there is no way you can stand far back and block the kick with the upper part of your knee. i had thought i made moving in obvious when i say block as far up his leg as possible.

and theres no way to state facts with over-generalizations. over-generalizations just [censored] people that are halfway around the world off. i am sure i can make some about thailand which would seem very ignorant and rude to you, but i dont like to.
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#352325 - 07/29/07 12:22 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Taison: In my post i suggest that he uses the same kind of blocks as your "secret" thai only blocks, but that he conditions his shin cause shin to shin blocks will happen, and may be necessary if he is too slow to block like you suggest here, and you said that I was wrong and that shin to shin was not the way to block. Wish you had read what I posted before you just said it was wrong.

Second, Thai Boxing refers to a style that looked to Europeans and Americans like western boxing (Because of the gloves) but that was from Thailand. hence Thai Boxing.
It does not mean that you have to be Thai or to box a Thai.People in the West called it Thai Boxing (probably out of ignorance) but that is the name it got in the west. I like Muay Thai better myself because you know it's not American style kickboxing you are talking about but i understand some people calling it Thai Boxing.

What you say is like saying Brazilian Jujitsu is just for Brazilians.

Meliam

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#352326 - 07/29/07 12:38 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Taison: You are right about the many schools in the US that don't know crap. There are schools like that everywhere, In Europe, the US, South America and I am sure even in Thailand.

But there are also schools that are good. The Brazilians have some excellent schools, so do the Dutch and other Europeans, Russians are not bad either, and there are a lot of good American fighters. But it goes back to your comments about K1, if you claim that all but the Thai are terrible at Thai Boxing and then excuse the Thai for not winning the tournaments where they could show they really are the best then it is a bit hard to argue. You never see many thais in K1, Pride, the UFC etc. And I know you will say its because the rules and because those tournaments suck, but those tournaments are open for fighters from all over the world, and it would be a place for the thais to display their skills.

I trained Kyokushin and Ashihara in Europe before I moved to the US and began training Muay Thai and BJJ. I have been in and seen tournaments with people from all over the world, and I have never seen a Thai dominance, unless you talk about local fights in Thailand.

I have nothing against Thai people and I love their art (Muay Thai) but I find your talk about how terrible all others are narrow-minded and disrespectful, its not like you have seen all the other schools that teach Muay Thai in Europe and the US.

Meliam

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#352327 - 07/29/07 04:17 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Meliam,

Sigh. .

If only I could show you people online how to perform these so called 'blocks' you might see. It's damn hard to explain something using words only.

Basically, a good MT block will look more like a knee thrust than actually a block. It also involves a slight step to the side, and a slight step forward all in the same motion. It rarely results in a shin to shin impact because the angle are rarely on for the shins to meet.

Quote:

What you say is like saying Brazilian Jujitsu is just for Brazilians.


No. What formless is saying is more along the line of saying "I'm a Brazilian Judo-ka". If it were you would you understand it as him being a Judo-ka from Brazil, or a practitioner of Brazilian Judo?

Formless,

Quote:

i am sure i can make some about thailand which would seem very ignorant and rude to you, but i dont like to.


Like what? I could need a good laugh now.

Formless, no disrespect, seeing as you haven't filled your bio or anything, I have no idea who or what you do. But the sound of it, it seems you're a college student with max maybe 3 or 4 years experience and doing part time work. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not saying that MT schools in the US sucks, but what I am saying is that there so many McGyms, it's hard to take a foreign MT boxer seriously. In Thailand, they're spitting out year after year hundreds of quality fighters, who are all able to become big shots, not because of passion but because it's survival. No dog can bite like a corned dog. Same with Thai boxers, they lose, no food on the table. Most of the time, Western boxers do it for a passion but they don't have that drive like Thai boxers do. Hell, even I don't have that drive.

In the end, however, I think blocks are a last resort. It causes too much pain, and it shows you've got poor defense. A good fighter parries or riposte instead of taking a hit head-on.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352328 - 07/30/07 07:52 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
clearly i have a LOT to learn about low kick defence, but i sense a difference in opinion between east and west here, could that be because in Thailand they fight week to week and cant afford to risk mangling their shins on each other as it would affect training? consequently resulting in either less low leg kicks being thrown/blocked. Where as over here in the west since they fight every couple of months they can afford to get all excited and low leg kick themselves silly and have plenty of time to recover? i could be wrong.................
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

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#352329 - 07/30/07 11:51 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: shills11]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Yes, more or less, you're right.

It is not unusual for a Thai boxer to fight around 3 matches a week, with very little recovery time.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352330 - 07/30/07 12:48 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
just for a miunte please, something taison said spark a memory.

"I am not saying that MT schools in the US sucks, but what I am saying is that there so many McGyms, it's hard to take a foreign MT boxer seriously. In Thailand, they're spitting out year after year hundreds of quality fighters, who are all able to become big shots, not because of passion but because it's survival. No dog can bite like a corned dog. Same with Thai boxers, they lose, no food on the table. Most of the time, Western boxers do it for a passion but they don't have that drive like Thai boxers do. Hell, even I don't have that drive."

this is very true. i never realiazed it before, i always thought i trained hard as hell with a few close buddies. then i go away to a international seminar one year, and we spend a few hours sparing, just moving from one person to the next no break. and forgive me for being human, but after a hour or so i was clinically dead, im sure. i had stoped evading punches and simply let them hit me and rolled them off, i was just to tired to do anything else. then i pair up against this man from isreal, for my story i will call him the killing macine, anyway, the killing machine seeing im tired grabs my sleve and plants a front kick in my stomach that im sure my grand father felt. my first reaction is to give him one hell of a look, and he looks at me and says, and i will never forget this "where im from, they come for you when your tired, and they take your family" and then im on my feet with thoughts of my family in my head.

we all have the ability to reach that drive, and use it. some of us in the western hemisphere are just not as used to danger. now at every seminar that story is told. i think i've seen the same thing in some boxing matches. it seems to me that some people are content to go to a boxing gym, train like a boxer, put on a boxers uniform, and get in the ring and be a boxer. these people get knocked the f*$% out. then there are the people who train boxing because they have to, because its not a sport, it really is a way of life. they get in the ring and look to kill you, every ounce of them is devoted to beating your ass down.

i think its a matter of waking up from the dream of safety. its so comfortable in bed in the morning sometimes that you just don't want to get up. and while im in a soft bed trying to drain every last minute of sleep out, the men who live for the fight are training.

benny the jet is a guy i kind look up to in that light, such a small guy, but he fought the hell outta his opponents.

that level drive is reachable by anyone, its just easier to lay out on teh deck with a beer. sad??

ok, resume the leg kicking
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#352331 - 07/30/07 05:21 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
"Formless, no disrespect, seeing as you haven't filled your bio or anything, I have no idea who or what you do. But the sound of it, it seems you're a college student with max maybe 3 or 4 years experience and doing part time work. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not saying that MT schools in the US sucks, but what I am saying is that there so many McGyms, it's hard to take a foreign MT boxer seriously. In Thailand, they're spitting out year after year hundreds of quality fighters, who are all able to become big shots, not because of passion but because it's survival. No dog can bite like a corned dog. Same with Thai boxers, they lose, no food on the table. Most of the time, Western boxers do it for a passion but they don't have that drive like Thai boxers do. Hell, even I don't have that drive."

1). college student yes, 21 years old, 6 years tracy system of kenpo, 2 years boxing/kickboxing then the last 6 years training in MT. i think i know a little bit about fighting. theres my bio. that should be all you need to know. and there are mcdojos in every part of the world.

2). You did say that the schools in the U.S. sucked and you wouldnt train in them. said ud only train in thailand and the uk.

3). corned dogs are delicious and i bite them, not the other way around.

4). dont take me seriously, my advantage. it only takes one decent hit to decide the outcome of a fight.

5). i do not wish to make generalizations about thailand, i think its beautiful and am grateful for what has become one of my favorite martial arts, just be aware that they are out there, and i will not perpetuate any of them, seeing as i have not been there.

do NOT underestimate ANY of your opponents, regardless of the ground they were born on. the will to fight with all your heart and with the rage of a cornered injured dog is NOT a thai exclusive trait.

will > skill
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#352332 - 08/06/07 04:13 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: formless]
Helen2005 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 77
Loc: Arkansas
My hubbie and I were wondering this very same thing the other day. The parry sounds a lot better and less painful than trying to block the kick. I'm going to have to practice this and see if I can get it down. Thanks Taison. BTW, I don't think where you're from determines whether you'll be a good fighter. I think what determines if you'll be a good fighter is using your brain and following your heart.
_________________________
www.revolutioncombatandfitness.com

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#352333 - 08/07/07 02:05 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Helen2005]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The thing that determines if you're a good fighter is proper training, support and motivation.

Formless, sorry if I haven't been able to reply, been busy. I'll come up with something to annoy you. Give me a sec, I'm still trying to figure something out.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#352334 - 08/10/07 11:47 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
The parry is the best way of stopping a kick.
But I always stress that fighters should prepare for the worse and then the best will happen.

Do a lot of conditioning and speed drills, condition your shin in case you end up blocking shin to shin, because of accident or because the opponent is too fast. Develop your leg muscles to be able to take some kicks straight on the thigh without going down. Be ready for all the bad stuff that can happen. And then use the parry. Doing so will make you an effective fighter. You will use the best option but you will not succumb if you have to fall back to a less preferred method of blocking during the fight.

At least thats my take on it.

What makes you a good fighter? proper training, support, environment, motivation, heart.

Train hard, do a lot of conditioning, never let your physical conditioning be the reason why you lose a fight.

Taison did not mean that Thais are better just because they are Thais but because of the way they see fighting as the only way of supporting themselves and their families.
And because of the tradition of MT in Thailand.

I tend to agree with this, but you also have to think about the people that do it just because they love it. They train a lot, they have all what they need at their disposal. Good equipment, good training, good nutrition etc, that may add up to also be a decisive factor in becoming a good fighter.

That is why I tend to believe that there are good fighters all over the world, it's not the system is the training and the fighter himself that makes the difference.

Meliam

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#352335 - 08/15/07 09:38 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
falconhunter2020 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 16
When "defending" against a kick to the leg, why is it wrong to block it with your arm or the back of your fist?
I can see why you wouldn't want to block with the ulna; you'd break your arm, but what about double bone blocks?
Another argument stated above was that your opponent would hit you in the face while your arm was down, what if you block with your rear hand?

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#352336 - 08/15/07 09:40 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: falconhunter2020]
WhiteDragon11 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Florida, United States
Theres no point to bring you arm or arms all the way to your leg to block a kick that you can block with your leg in the first place. To block leg kicks the easiest thing to do is to just go with the kick so it doesnt break anything. And if you bring you arm or arms down, either way your in trouble.

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#352337 - 08/15/07 10:22 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: WhiteDragon11]
falconhunter2020 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 16
I see the point you're making, but to me it makes more sense to end up with an injured hand than an injured foot. With an injured hand you don't lose manuverability.
I didn't read all of the previous posts, but there seemed to be an argument on whether or not to block with your shin or your foot. I'm not going to ask which way is better, but can you give the pro's and con's of the different blocking methods?

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#352338 - 08/15/07 10:28 PM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: falconhunter2020]
WhiteDragon11 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Florida, United States
Welcome your not really "blocking" the kick as your are not getting hurt by it, I guess. When the kick you can jam it up with your leg, you can even try and get your knee to strike their shin as a attack for a block. Well if they are kicking at your torso or hips I jam up the leg. If they are striking around your knee area then lift your leg and just go with the attack. So if I was kicking at your knee just go with the flow of the kick. And lift is up so atleast its along your shin because you dont want a hurt knee.

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#352339 - 08/16/07 10:42 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: falconhunter2020]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

When "defending" against a kick to the leg, why is it wrong to block it with your arm or the back of your fist?
I can see why you wouldn't want to block with the ulna; you'd break your arm, but what about double bone blocks?
Another argument stated above was that your opponent would hit you in the face while your arm was down, what if you block with your rear hand?




The ideal is to block kicks to your legs with your legs and kicks to your torso and head with your hands/arms.

It is not really a matter of being physical able to block the kick with your arms/hands or not, is more a matter of not moving the arms down to block the kick.

First of all: it is faster to block/parry leg kicks with you legs, and high kicks and punches with your hands/arms.

Second: the opponent will see that you take your hands down when he kicks low and he will fake a low kick and then throw either a hard high kick to the unprotected head or a hand/elbow strike to the head.

So usually you keep your hands up protecting the head and you let your legs do the low kick parries.

Finally: it is quite hard to block a MT style low thigh kick with your arm. If the opponent fires a full power low kick and you try to block it with your wrist the kick will end up going through your parry/block and hitting your leg. (Possibly with your arm stuck between the kicking leg and your own thigh).

There are however other kicks where it makes sense to use the hands/arms to parry/block. You can block a front kick with your hands/arms because you redirect the kick's direction and power to the side and make it "miss" its target.

You can block high kicks because usually it is harder to get the same amount of power in high kicks than you get in low kicks. You can also use both hands/forearms in some situations to block a high kick, but you cant take both hands down to block and low kick without exposing your head and torso.

If you kneel down and let someone throw a full power MT style low kick to your head you would have a hard time parring it with your hand/arms.


Meliam

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#352340 - 08/16/07 10:58 AM Re: Darn you leg kicks! [Re: Meliam]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
I would not want to take the low kicks with my knee. I know some people do this but I would not do it as my first option.


When I parry low kicks I do the following. If you thrust your hip forward a bit when you parry/block, you can catch his inner thigh (Just above his knee) with your shin (Just above your foot). This makes the parry less taxing on your shin because you make contact with the soft muscle in stead of his shin.

I still stress the need for conditioned shins because if this fails you may end up taking a shin to shin hit.

High kick parry Tip: On high kicks I like to sometimes use a Sabate style heel kick to the front part of the thigh of the opponents non kicking leg. When the opponent kicks high, as soon as he makes contact with my arms, I fire a straight heel kick to the thigh of the sustaining leg. This attack is hard to block when you have one leg up in the air. The Technique comes from my time doing Ashihara Karate.

Meliam

Meliam

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