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#351782 - 07/17/07 11:07 AM American kickboxing
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
im going to start. i have a feq questions tho. what do kickboxers generally wear? do they were any sort of gloves on there feet? are there belts in kickboxing? also is it true that low kicks are sometimes aloud in a fight? so they teach them in the class.

also is full contact karate the same as american kickboxing?

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#351783 - 07/17/07 12:32 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
Depends. You say American kickboxing, does your gym usually fight under a certain orginizations rules? Whe you say American Kickboxing I usually think WAKO and IKBF, ie, "shiny pants" kickboxing, though WAKO does Muay Thai/K1 style fights too. Those orginizations usually don't allow leg kicks and require foot protection in addition to boxing gloves and the characteristic pants, because they originated as full contact karate.

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#351784 - 07/17/07 01:01 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Viator]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
WAKO -

Boxing gloves, pants and instep-protection are required. No kicks below the waist.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351785 - 07/17/07 01:06 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
whats the difference between full contact karate and kickboxing?

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#351786 - 07/17/07 01:23 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Which kickboxing?

Be more specific. There's like 100 types of kickboxing out there, each with 100 organizations, each with millions of promoters.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351787 - 07/17/07 01:25 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
oo sorry. im not sure exactly the rules are basically that you can kick anywhere with either the foot or the shin. you can also pucnh above the waist. no elbows or knees.

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#351788 - 07/17/07 02:20 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
That's more along K-1 kickboxing.

The difference between full-contact karate and that type of kickboxing? They both punch and kick, the difference? Just about everything else.

Quote:

you can also pucnh above the waist


Of course you can punch above the waist, what? You want me to hammer your groin from round 1 till round 12?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351789 - 07/17/07 02:24 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
WhiteDragon11 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Florida, United States
Punching under the waist would be pathetic to watch anyways. Imagine someone getting low to punch low. Big opportunity to kick some a$$.

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#351790 - 07/17/07 02:31 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: WhiteDragon11]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
yah its kind of like K-1 kickboxing there is a gym in my area. i cant wait to join. it seems like it is going to be fun

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#351791 - 07/17/07 02:37 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Hmm, your choice.

I'll be honest, In my honest honest opinion, K-1 kickboxing is a cheap rip-off from MT, designed and modified in every way possible to prevent Thai boxers from gaining a clear edge, yet fails miserably when Thai boxers dominate most of their light divisions.

But that's just my opinion.

Danny, why don't you just stick to one thing for a couple of years? I see you jumping from one thing to another like every week. Do boxing for a couple of years, or do wrestling. Stick to something darn it.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351792 - 07/17/07 04:18 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
thanks bro. and yah i wish i could do muy thai but no gyms aroudn here. and i am sticking im still doing boxing and wrestling. i just wanted to add in some kicking

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#351793 - 07/17/07 11:16 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Learn good punching first in my opinion.

A good puncher will beat a good kicker most of the time.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#351794 - 07/17/07 11:45 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
thanks.

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#351795 - 07/27/07 01:15 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

I'll be honest, In my honest honest opinion, K-1 kickboxing is a cheap rip-off from MT, designed and modified in every way possible to prevent Thai boxers from gaining a clear edge, yet fails miserably when Thai boxers dominate most of their light divisions.

But that's just my opinion.




How do they prevent Thai Boxers from being effective? you mean the clinching rules in K1 or what? Elbows?

And the lighter weight classes ... well honestly how prestigious are those classes? The heavy K1 classes in particular the heavy weight is the popular one people want to see. (How many Thai do you see there?)

K1 was originally going to be one open weight class, who
would be dominating if it really was one open class?

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.

But that is also just my opinion.

Meliam

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#351796 - 07/27/07 04:24 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
Quote:

And the lighter weight classes ... well honestly how prestigious are those classes? The heavy K1 classes in particular the heavy weight is the popular one people want to see. (How many Thai do you see there?)




Crowd popularity is not equal to prestige. Crowds just want to see blood and knockouts. Doesn't matter which sport I'm watching, I usually prefer watching the lightweights fight because of their generally greater technical prowess.

Quote:

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.




Kaoklai vs. Hong Man Choi. Kaoklai lost by decision but it was a ridiculously close match, considering that Kaoklai is about 172 at 5'11" and Hong Man Choi is 7'2" and around 360. Size is a definative advantage only when all other factors are equal.

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#351797 - 07/27/07 09:22 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The only reason there is weight divisions is simple, to keep all variables equal so that all matches are only upto skills in theory.

Quote:

How do they prevent Thai Boxers from being effective? you mean the clinching rules in K1 or what? Elbows?


no clinching, no elbows, overall bigger gloves, and a few more rules I don't want to get into detail because it'll utterly bore me.

Quote:

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.



Actually, no. Take any big shot, take him to Rajadamnoern or Lumphini. I want to see how far he'll go. So far, I've yet to see ANY AT ALL go far.

Quote:

K1 was originally going to be one open weight class, who
would be dominating if it really was one open class?


One open weight class? The Thais. But then you'd need to allow clinching and elbow, or else it's just a factor of who's stronger, who can deliver and take blows more. Basically, K-1 replaces skills for strength. That's how watered down and stupid the whole competition is. It's like telling people at a no-gi grappling tournament they're not allowed to takedown or neck manipulation, only armbars. You think that sounds stupid? Guess what I think K-1 is.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#351798 - 07/28/07 01:01 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
is it legal to grab the leg in K-1?

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#351799 - 07/29/07 12:07 AM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

is it legal to grab the leg in K-1?




You can grab it and follow up with a technique or a sweep, you can't keep grabbing it, and you wont get points for a takedown by grabbing the leg.


Taison: why is it that Muai Thay fighters from thailand go to Holland to train with the dutch fighters then?

The idea that all Thai Boxers schools/fighters are better because they are born Thai is IMHO just stupid. There may be some ok schools in Thailand but there are good schools all over the world. You may not like K1 but the fact is that the Thai do not dominate K1, and if it is a watered down version of Muay Thai the real Thai should be able to adapt to this watered down easier competition and still win. Ok you cant MT Clinch and there is the elbow rule, but with the remaining techniques allowed a good MT boxer should still be able to win. For me this sounds like an excuse for them not being able to do good in K1.

What about Pride Fight Championship? how many Thai do you see there? You can clinch and elbow there, there are lots of K1 fighters fighting there but no Thai. Is it again the rules that are to blame or is there another excuse?

And in an open class it would be Japanese, Euros, Brazilians and some Americans who would dominate.

Well this is my opinion anyhow.


Meliam

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#351800 - 07/29/07 04:37 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

why is it that Muai Thay fighters from thailand go to Holland to train with the dutch fighters then?


Who? Like how many? If it's less than 100, then I wouldn't say it's a general trend. They can barely afford living in BKK, and you expect them to move to Holland?

Quote:

The idea that all Thai Boxers schools/fighters are better because they are born Thai is IMHO just stupid.


Not because they're Thai. The way they are trained, and their economic background are the main reason. A well-off Thai would never ever consider doing MT, that's how simple it is. Kids are taken in at the age of 8. They are trained. By the time they are around 18 they may have around 400 matches under their belts.

Thai promoters? The biggest SOB that has ever walked the earth. A fighter can make up to 3000 THB a match, guess how much the promoter takes? What happens if the boxer loses? Let's say his family back in the rural areas won't have anything to eat. Every match is a matter of survival, not pride or achievement.

Thai boxers are doing good in K-1 Max. You're looking at the more popular heavy-weight division. For your info, it's quite hard to make a Thai big. Trust me, if I could be big like my fellow country-men back in Scandinavia, I'd sacrifice one of my balls for that, but sigh, I can't. In Thailand being 175cm is considered tall, in Scandinavia or Europe, that's short.

MMA. I just love it how people throw in MMA when talking about less rules.

MMA will utterly destroy a MT boxer because simply, an average Thai boxer will have absolutely zero exposure to grappling. Take-down and armbar, done. Match over. Crocop actually trained extensively in grappling and grappling defence before doing MMA. I doubt it will become popular sending Thai boxers into MMA in the near future.

Back to being able to adapt. No, it's not easier to adapt. When you've done something for decades and then expect them to drop it all of a sudden, it's not easy. It's like putting Mark Coleman into a Judo competition expecting him to use technique. He'll for sure, start doing his "ground n' pound" thing. Changing the rules that increases options are easy to adapt to. Changing the rules that decreases options are a b!tch to adapt to.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351801 - 07/30/07 01:22 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
I misunderstood what you were saying Taison, I read it as an attack of all non Thai fighters in general. I agree that the poverty factor is of great importance. A fighter who does it for sport versus one that does it to eat and support his family will be an unfair fight.

Some of my friends went to Thailand to train and fight and they were treated like crap by the guys that organize the fights, if they won the fight all was fine if they loss the guys organizing the fights didn't even bother to call an ambulance, so I believe you when you say the promoters are usually SOBs over there.

Still I would like to train over there someday, probably wont happen but it would be nice.

Meliam

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#351802 - 08/01/07 10:11 AM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Meliam, you've got good sense.

I'll be honest, I openly baited you to promote a debate. So don't take what I wrote up there 100% to be what I really think.

If you ever come to Thailand, I could either get you in a good MT school worth your money, or you could train with me, but be warned, I'm an evil advocate of NHB fighting.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#351803 - 08/01/07 12:41 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Taison that would be great
And how popular is NHB fighting in Thailand?
Are they jumping the MMA wagon like Japan,Europe,and the Americas?

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#351804 - 08/02/07 02:01 AM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Actually, they're pretty much against it.

It somehow "ruins" the sport and is viewed as savagery in the eyes of Thais.

Methinks, MMA is a "truer" art than MT. It doesn't put restrictions or limits on you. I'm more of a western thinker, while they refuse to go against their traditions. Can't blame them though. It's their art after all.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#351805 - 08/10/07 02:44 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

Actually, they're pretty much against it.

It somehow "ruins" the sport and is viewed as savagery in the eyes of Thais.

Methinks, MMA is a "truer" art than MT. It doesn't put restrictions or limits on you. I'm more of a western thinker, while they refuse to go against their traditions. Can't blame them though. It's their art after all.

-Taison out




Thanx for the info. Yeah MMA has less restrictions, and believe it or not I also found out that it was not as demanding on my body as Knock Down or MT was. Sure you have to be in shape to do the grappling part, but you can grapple for hours and have little or no damage from it. Where as Knock down and MT leave a lot of bruises on your body. The fact that you can shoot and take the opponent down to a grappling fight makes it easier on the body than fights where you stand up and trade hits for 20 minutes. Even the blows you deliver while ground fighting are not as hard and effective as those when you are standing up.

I still do some MT fights once in a while but MMA is in my opinion more fun at the moment and i take less punishment. I still love Knock Down fights and MT though

Meliam

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#351806 - 08/10/07 02:52 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Quote:

but you can grapple for hours and have little or no damage from it. Where as Knock down and MT leave a lot of bruises on your body.




I don't know. I started grappling recently and I'm covered with bruises right now. Guess it depends on the person and how hard you're going.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#351807 - 08/10/07 04:46 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: JMWcorwin]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
You will get bruised and you will be sore after grappling, but its not the same as taking punches, kicks. The goal in grappling is to submit the opponent, in MT it is to knock him out. Grappling is hard don't get me wrong and you will be hurt and get bruises. I was just saying that for me, in stead of Pure Knock-Down or MT I find it less punishing on my body to be able to do stand up or to go down and grapple.

Meliam

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#351808 - 08/10/07 05:23 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
yeah, sure. I'll concede that point.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#351809 - 08/10/07 09:22 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: JMWcorwin]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
JMW think like this;

When you want to go extra hard for 1 whole week, if it's grappling, you can go that extra and the next week the worse that could happen is you're a bit exhausted.

If it was MT, you'd be covered in wounds, cuts and bruises all over and maybe have to take that next week off.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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