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#351792 - 07/17/07 04:18 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
thanks bro. and yah i wish i could do muy thai but no gyms aroudn here. and i am sticking im still doing boxing and wrestling. i just wanted to add in some kicking

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#351793 - 07/17/07 11:16 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Learn good punching first in my opinion.

A good puncher will beat a good kicker most of the time.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351794 - 07/17/07 11:45 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
thanks.

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#351795 - 07/27/07 01:15 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

I'll be honest, In my honest honest opinion, K-1 kickboxing is a cheap rip-off from MT, designed and modified in every way possible to prevent Thai boxers from gaining a clear edge, yet fails miserably when Thai boxers dominate most of their light divisions.

But that's just my opinion.




How do they prevent Thai Boxers from being effective? you mean the clinching rules in K1 or what? Elbows?

And the lighter weight classes ... well honestly how prestigious are those classes? The heavy K1 classes in particular the heavy weight is the popular one people want to see. (How many Thai do you see there?)

K1 was originally going to be one open weight class, who
would be dominating if it really was one open class?

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.

But that is also just my opinion.

Meliam

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#351796 - 07/27/07 04:24 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
Quote:

And the lighter weight classes ... well honestly how prestigious are those classes? The heavy K1 classes in particular the heavy weight is the popular one people want to see. (How many Thai do you see there?)




Crowd popularity is not equal to prestige. Crowds just want to see blood and knockouts. Doesn't matter which sport I'm watching, I usually prefer watching the lightweights fight because of their generally greater technical prowess.

Quote:

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.




Kaoklai vs. Hong Man Choi. Kaoklai lost by decision but it was a ridiculously close match, considering that Kaoklai is about 172 at 5'11" and Hong Man Choi is 7'2" and around 360. Size is a definative advantage only when all other factors are equal.

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#351797 - 07/27/07 09:22 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The only reason there is weight divisions is simple, to keep all variables equal so that all matches are only upto skills in theory.

Quote:

How do they prevent Thai Boxers from being effective? you mean the clinching rules in K1 or what? Elbows?


no clinching, no elbows, overall bigger gloves, and a few more rules I don't want to get into detail because it'll utterly bore me.

Quote:

I think the myth of the tiny skinny martial artist who can kick the big muscular guys (_!_) ended then the big guys learned the same martial art as the little guy.



Actually, no. Take any big shot, take him to Rajadamnoern or Lumphini. I want to see how far he'll go. So far, I've yet to see ANY AT ALL go far.

Quote:

K1 was originally going to be one open weight class, who
would be dominating if it really was one open class?


One open weight class? The Thais. But then you'd need to allow clinching and elbow, or else it's just a factor of who's stronger, who can deliver and take blows more. Basically, K-1 replaces skills for strength. That's how watered down and stupid the whole competition is. It's like telling people at a no-gi grappling tournament they're not allowed to takedown or neck manipulation, only armbars. You think that sounds stupid? Guess what I think K-1 is.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351798 - 07/28/07 01:01 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
danny81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 350
is it legal to grab the leg in K-1?

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#351799 - 07/29/07 12:07 AM Re: American kickboxing [Re: danny81]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
Quote:

is it legal to grab the leg in K-1?




You can grab it and follow up with a technique or a sweep, you can't keep grabbing it, and you wont get points for a takedown by grabbing the leg.


Taison: why is it that Muai Thay fighters from thailand go to Holland to train with the dutch fighters then?

The idea that all Thai Boxers schools/fighters are better because they are born Thai is IMHO just stupid. There may be some ok schools in Thailand but there are good schools all over the world. You may not like K1 but the fact is that the Thai do not dominate K1, and if it is a watered down version of Muay Thai the real Thai should be able to adapt to this watered down easier competition and still win. Ok you cant MT Clinch and there is the elbow rule, but with the remaining techniques allowed a good MT boxer should still be able to win. For me this sounds like an excuse for them not being able to do good in K1.

What about Pride Fight Championship? how many Thai do you see there? You can clinch and elbow there, there are lots of K1 fighters fighting there but no Thai. Is it again the rules that are to blame or is there another excuse?

And in an open class it would be Japanese, Euros, Brazilians and some Americans who would dominate.

Well this is my opinion anyhow.


Meliam

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#351800 - 07/29/07 04:37 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Meliam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

why is it that Muai Thay fighters from thailand go to Holland to train with the dutch fighters then?


Who? Like how many? If it's less than 100, then I wouldn't say it's a general trend. They can barely afford living in BKK, and you expect them to move to Holland?

Quote:

The idea that all Thai Boxers schools/fighters are better because they are born Thai is IMHO just stupid.


Not because they're Thai. The way they are trained, and their economic background are the main reason. A well-off Thai would never ever consider doing MT, that's how simple it is. Kids are taken in at the age of 8. They are trained. By the time they are around 18 they may have around 400 matches under their belts.

Thai promoters? The biggest SOB that has ever walked the earth. A fighter can make up to 3000 THB a match, guess how much the promoter takes? What happens if the boxer loses? Let's say his family back in the rural areas won't have anything to eat. Every match is a matter of survival, not pride or achievement.

Thai boxers are doing good in K-1 Max. You're looking at the more popular heavy-weight division. For your info, it's quite hard to make a Thai big. Trust me, if I could be big like my fellow country-men back in Scandinavia, I'd sacrifice one of my balls for that, but sigh, I can't. In Thailand being 175cm is considered tall, in Scandinavia or Europe, that's short.

MMA. I just love it how people throw in MMA when talking about less rules.

MMA will utterly destroy a MT boxer because simply, an average Thai boxer will have absolutely zero exposure to grappling. Take-down and armbar, done. Match over. Crocop actually trained extensively in grappling and grappling defence before doing MMA. I doubt it will become popular sending Thai boxers into MMA in the near future.

Back to being able to adapt. No, it's not easier to adapt. When you've done something for decades and then expect them to drop it all of a sudden, it's not easy. It's like putting Mark Coleman into a Judo competition expecting him to use technique. He'll for sure, start doing his "ground n' pound" thing. Changing the rules that increases options are easy to adapt to. Changing the rules that decreases options are a b!tch to adapt to.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#351801 - 07/30/07 01:22 PM Re: American kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Meliam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 61
I misunderstood what you were saying Taison, I read it as an attack of all non Thai fighters in general. I agree that the poverty factor is of great importance. A fighter who does it for sport versus one that does it to eat and support his family will be an unfair fight.

Some of my friends went to Thailand to train and fight and they were treated like crap by the guys that organize the fights, if they won the fight all was fine if they loss the guys organizing the fights didn't even bother to call an ambulance, so I believe you when you say the promoters are usually SOBs over there.

Still I would like to train over there someday, probably wont happen but it would be nice.

Meliam

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