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#351128 - 07/22/07 11:59 AM Re: a definition of budo [Re: WuXing]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Like everything of the "Eastern" genre, the concepts of Budo are held in many things. You're exactly right that Bushido is the Code of the Warrior, just as the Hakagure is the "rules" for a warrior, and neither of them are actual Budo... however, Budo would be impossible without them.

Eyrie and I constantly talk about Aikido being like an onion, with layer upon layer of technique, method,centering,... all of which are "pieces of the whole". Budo is also like that.

One may study an art for years and never scratch the surface of Budo, depending on how they practice and what their philosophy of training is.

"Training with intent" is another item. If we're doing bokken practice, I'm trying to hit you... plain and simple. My built in restraint will stop me from hitting you only inches before I strike your body, but my intent is to hit you with that weapon. I will be hitting you full speed, and full power... hence, the need for "control". That is what I've meant every time I've ever said "control"... the ability to stop the technique at any point in the strike (either before the target, or after)

Bushido, the code of conduct for Samurai, defines the actions and thoughts that should be held as a warrior. It defines the thought processes involved in what regulates your actions, and what defines your conduct as a warrior. With Bushido, you should be conducting yourself properly, and establishing yourself through your training.

The Hakagure defines "rules" of conduct, and specifically initiates certain behaviors that are expected of warriors. You have to remember when the book was written, during feudal times which are 100 years gone in Japan, so their applications are somewhat muted in today's society, but the principles of the conduct is still good and can be upheld.

You nailed it here...

However, being able to eschew the fear of death is an excellent goal, and practicing martial arts is one thing that can lead in that direction. This does not mean you want to die, but that you move forward without hesitation when you need to. When it is time to act, you act without regret. When it is time to stay still, you stay still without doubt. Doing what is natural, without over-thinking and analyzing everything...

Well put...
The reason I have my post script selected is to put that focus into a real world involvement. If we don't use our knowledge to make the world a better place, we are doomed to live in a world that is a worse place... so focus is also an attribute of Budo.

What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

#351129 - 07/22/07 07:52 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: wristtwister]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia

Perhaps this will help...

There are 2 certainties in life - taxes is one of them.... the uncertainties in life is what makes life interesting and challenging.

Personally, the whole "preparing for death" idea seems like a total waste of time to me. Time is all we have in this short life, and I'll be damned if I have to prepare my tax return as well as my funeral. I'm sure I have better things to do than that.... like um... wine, women, and song?

#351130 - 07/23/07 12:48 AM Re: a definition of budo [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:, women, and song?

Death & Taxes?

wine -- a taxed item;

women -- some men die because of them;

song? -- hear my karaoke singing and chose one.


...being in touch with the Tao.

Are we confusing Budo/Bushido with the "Tao"?

I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

#351131 - 07/23/07 06:49 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: ButterflyPalm]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Perhaps my self-indulgent, hedonistic example was merely to illustrate a point that there's more to life than making pre-emptive funeral preparations...

The reality is, most food items are subject to GST... unless you're growing your own food on a self-sufficient basis.

Women, can't live with them, can't live without them, unless, of course, your sexual orientation leans the other way.

As for singing, melodious or otherwise, it's all "noise"... I think the joy that comes from doing it is what counts.... as long as it's not your rendition of Fox and Gimbel's 1971 hit...

#351132 - 07/23/07 08:30 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: ButterflyPalm]
WuXing Offline

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
No. Is there somewhere where the Tao is not? I don't think bushido is about following the Tao, but practicing martial arts can be about following the Tao (even Japanese martial arts). Does a sage go about worrying, in fear of the unknown?

#351133 - 07/23/07 11:04 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: WuXing]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Let's not forget the Neo-Confucianist influences of Chu Hsi (Zhu Xi) during that period...

#351134 - 07/26/07 07:54 AM Re: a definition of budo [Re: student_of_life]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Bu - martial/war

Do - way/path

one of many ways/paths to learning about yourself. since the war experience reportedly touches upon just about every profound depth of Human emotions and direct link to primitive instincts; a philosophy is built around those experiences in an attempt to make sense of it all - the alternative is insanity. A broken mind in combat is a sure path to defeat and death.

'Budo' was/is just one culture's answer to dealing with the human factor within a war setting...and the definition of 'Budo' changes with each war, and each century, to meet the needs of those utilizing it's construct.

today, the everyday 'war' people fight is different from 500 years ago. people's everyday 'war' is more metaphore than actual physical threat. -it's the spirit and philosophy of the metaphore that loosely connects to the physical intent of the the 'Budo' of today.

...from one point of view, anyway.

#351135 - 07/26/07 08:16 AM Re: a definition of budo [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
furthering the thought...
every culture and time have their popular ways of dealing with the war experience. 'codes', 'philosophies', 'justifications', 'loyalties to a god(s)', etc.

They are all interchnagable and replacable ways that Human's cope with the larger forces around them. most of the time, the 'way' is exposed to someone early-on thru the culture they are exposed to.
As the world grows smaller, more people are exposed to more cultures and 'ways'. 'Budo' is a Japanese export to the world. but many Japanese budoka would say that if you aren't Japanese, you'll never really truely understand Budo. Partly, I think they are right since it is tied closely to culture - just like someone who's never lived in the US might never really 'get' American senses of humor. But in some measure, it's also about protectionism, pride, and culture-biased discrimination - you only see what they export....which cloud/distort definitions of Budo.

#351136 - 08/03/07 05:18 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: Ed_Morris]
caltrop Offline

Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 10
I'm probably going to be completely hacking the heck out of the literal meaning of budo and bushido, since I'm not an expert on the two terms, but couldn't 'willingness to die' also be read as willingness to give up pleasure, comfort, and personal choice in sacrifice to something greater than yourself?

There is a lot of this in the special operations forces of the military, and their commitment to 'the mission'. This is a stretch here, but it's not like they teach you this stuff verbatim in your training. I think that perhaps the human mind tends to move in this direction when undergoing the long-term suffering and discipline of these types of units. This could explain why you see a lot of it (although it's not called budo or bushido) in special ops, and why we may also see it as a result of eastern martial tradition.

We have many Bushis (budokas?) in our armed forces right now, even though they don't know that's what they are.

#351137 - 08/03/07 05:30 PM Re: a definition of budo [Re: eyrie]
JMWcorwin Offline

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
It's not about pre-emptive funeral preparations. We're just talking accepting the inevitability of death so that the fear of it doesn't cause you to hesitate in battle... thereby speeding the process along.

Not preparing for death. Accepting death as a given. Less fear, less hesitation, more time for the tortures of wine, women and song.

There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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