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#350505 - 08/15/07 05:11 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: matchhead_jack]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
A few similarities, matchhead Jack? Every single one of those savate kicks we've done in Isshinryu, and I'm sure other styles can say the same. Although we don't allow leg kicking in sparring. "Stop kicks", yes, but certainly not shots to the knees.
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#350506 - 08/18/07 12:10 AM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: Tashigae]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
Quote:

My, what the hell can we possibly have done to you to deserve such hatred!



you made the US drive the Nazis out of your country, haha

Any thoughts on the Judo episode??
I dont get why they didnt show Jujutsu if they titled the episode "Samura Legacy." Wouldnt that have been a better representation of the samurai?? They even say so themselves that Jujutsu is the closer to the samurai than Judo.
And they said that the Gracies learned Jujutsu....wasnt it Judo??

Overall I liked the episode though, and Chambers got comepletely owned in the Judo match. But not enough time was given on the ground for Chambers to work techniques (well tv time anyway). I felt like they had around 15 seconds on the ground before they were stood up, where the Judoka would be given the big advantage. Plus Chambers BJJ experience is probably limited to the ground mostly anyway.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#350507 - 08/18/07 08:26 AM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: IExcalibui2]
BillH1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/04/06
Posts: 2
I have to agree with you, Speedy. I have great respect for Kyokushin and really enjoyed watching some of the training at the various dojos. But I thought the fighting was lame and a poor representation of the art. It came down to punching the chest and leg attacks which is probably only about 5% of what the style is about.

I'd have preferred body armor and a full contact match.

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#350508 - 08/18/07 12:02 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: BillH1]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
I practice savate, and, watching the clips online, there is just no way the savate guy was going for it. His kicks and punches all looked like assaut level of contact [i.e. semi-contact/light-contact]. There is just no way he was fighting full-contact. I've seen people sparring harder under semi-contact rules.

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#350509 - 08/18/07 12:09 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: matt_mcg]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
Also, Ironfoot, no disrespect to your karate style but I'd be very surprised if you actually did kick the way savateurs kick. Or if you have some of the standard savate kicks in your repertoire.

Savate has evolved from day one around kicking wearing shoes and the kicks, as a result, are very different from karate style kicks -- they tend to land with the toes not the instep and they tend to be more extended than karate kicks. You'd break your feet trying to kick savate style with bare feet. Some savate kicks, like the coup de pied bas, you just couldn't do in bare feet.

Savateurs practice kicking legs all the time and the body mechanics of a low roundhouse to the opponents thigh, while wearing shoes, are just different to karate kicks.

This isn't to be negative about karate kicking -- which I'm sure has it's own advantages in the right context -- it's just different, that's all.

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#350510 - 08/18/07 12:11 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: matt_mcg]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

I practice savate, and, watching the clips online, there is just no way the savate guy was going for it. His kicks and punches all looked like assaut level of contact [i.e. semi-contact/light-contact]. There is just no way he was fighting full-contact. I've seen people sparring harder under semi-contact rules.




The Savate guy couldn't "Go for it" because he was way out of shape. He was panting like a dog trying to catch his breath half way thru the match. I'm surprised nobody has commented on it up till now. I guess after his championship win back in 2001 (I believe that was what the program stated), he must of stopped training for competition. I'm ashamed to say that I fell asleep last night before the Judo episode came on and will have to wait for tomorrow nights re-run. I'm surprised to read that Chambers was the fighter, with Duff being a wrestler, I thought that they would have had him on the mat last night.

VDJ

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#350511 - 08/18/07 12:21 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: VDJ]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
As far as I can tell he, Cissoko, was runner up in the 2003 championship. I can't really talk about the shape he was in [he's in much better shape than me!] but I was struck by how he was just tapping a lot of the kicks and his punches in the clinch were just light contact, not full.

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#350512 - 08/18/07 01:52 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: matt_mcg]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Okay I have mixed feelings about the Judo episode

The historical and cultural facts (which is really what the show is about despite the dojo visits and training) were skewed and sometimes just deceptively wrong. However, I don't think it's the History Channel's fault as much as it is the people they interviewed and talked to lying or being deceived themselves.

For example, the history of Takenouchi-ryu was probably a result of misinformation, misinterpretation/language barries and/or pride of the dojo. I.E. claiming to be the first style with jujutsu (Tatsumi-ryu for example is older) and being the father of all jujutsu in all Japan.

Also, trying to emphasize Judo's link to "samurai," I can't blame the History Channel for that because that is really the legacy of the militarization of pre-WWII Japan and the former government's nationalistic propaganda, but really they didn't give Dr. Kano enough credit for basically developing his own techniques.

Saying that "Judo beat Jujutsu" when competing for the police endorsements is waaaaaay too open ended and misleading. And the statement that Judo is endorsed by "the Japanese police" is much to open ended; for example the Tokyo Riot Police have their recruits take the one year Senshusei program in the Yoshinkan Aikido Hombu Dojo.

BUT, but, I did like the oponent they chose for the Judo match. This was a very good example - he dominated BUT at the same time was in control of the situation and did not use physical advantages (force, speed, etc) to bully around or pulverize the guy, but at the same time showed that his experience in Judo and his techniques were the things that gave him an edge. Very good example of the balance control and stability of his art.

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#350513 - 08/18/07 01:56 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: VDJ]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

I'm surprised to read that Chambers was the fighter, with Duff being a wrestler, I thought that they would have had him on the mat last night.

VDJ



*spoiler alert*
I honestly don't think the situation would have been very different because the Judo guy had impressive body/balance control (Duff thought he might be able to outmuscle the guy but his height and high balance would have been a huge disadvantage. He also had a harder time with the techniques and couldn't pin a guy much smaller than him.) In fact, Chambers was trained in BJJ and used some techniques and almost got in a good choke before they stalled out, so it was a very interesting match and a smart choice.

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#350514 - 08/18/07 10:58 PM Re: Human Weapon Series [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I definitely agree with the historical facts of Judo
and they didnt seem to explain much about Kano's reason of Judo development too

Jujutsu practice at the time, from what I know, was very brutal and dangerous. Many students suffering problems and such as it was a Jutsu (used for battle). JuDO shows a more gentle approach to the art? So that students can practice safely and such without dying in the dojo, haha. I might be wrong but is that how it goes?
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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