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#350008 - 07/06/07 12:39 AM A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found!
VietPanda Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 103
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCCWrM7a_YU
I'm guessing that kali sticks can be seen as an extension of the arms, and can protect without pain

enjoy!
_________________________
~Viet Panda~

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#350009 - 07/06/07 01:08 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: VietPanda]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
I don't know the true skill level of these guys, but I wasn't really impressed with the video in the least. It looked like 2 guys getting ready for their "live" Dungeons and Dragons weekend.

The guy with the double canes may have been holding back but the guy with the 2 handed sword had no clue what he was doing. He should have been using a high guard, and he kept turning his back.

I'll have to remember the name of this video just so I don't accidentally click on it again.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#350010 - 07/09/07 05:07 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: VietPanda]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
What I notice is the extreme diffuculty of a stick fighting a sword, Granted the sword user was slower and some of the time the stick user could deflect and counter the sword holder.

But all the battel sword has to do is touch and drag as he did on the leg and shoulder at times. Several attacks to the head the stick holders defense was there but I would not want to trust a mere stick held with one hand 90 degrees with stopping my head from splitting with board sword!!!

A fairer comparison would be stick & dagger vs. battle sword. It looked like the sword was out matched until you look closer.


Edited by Neko456 (07/09/07 05:09 PM)
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#350011 - 07/09/07 07:32 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: Neko456]
winterwarrior Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 19
The spanish found that their toledo steel blades was not effective against the fillipinos. Magelan learned that lesson and the island remained unconquered until guns were used. guess swords were not all that.

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#350012 - 07/10/07 12:19 AM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: winterwarrior]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think thats a dual bladed topic there Magelan was deafeat by poor footage, unfamilar grounds and numbers along with longer range weapon spear and bows and arrow, maybe some clean up stick work. The stick is the most convient weapon in escrima its not the weapon of choice in battle.

What made the defeat shocking was that they thought they were superior warriors and founded out tactics and familar grounds means something.

And also on the other edge of the blade do you think the filipinos would have added spanish sword fighting to their art if it wasn't effective in their encounters.

Really I was commenting on the stick vs. the sword, foil maybe but a sabre or board sword all he has to do is get in once or twice, accuracy is important but not as much as it is with the stick.

The stick is far superior then empty hands! So is a sling and ROCK!!!


Edited by Neko456 (07/10/07 12:22 AM)
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#350013 - 07/10/07 01:54 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: winterwarrior]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Quote:

The spanish found that their toledo steel blades was not effective against the fillipinos.



LOL. Your gonna have to explain this one for me?

Quote:

Magelan learned that lesson and the island remained unconquered until guns were used.



When you say "the island" you should be more specific since the Philippines is made up of over 7,000 islands. Many of the natives were friendly to Magellan including the king and queen of Cebu. The king of Cebu, Rajah Humabon already had existing problems with a chieftain Lapu-lapu. As Neko456 said Magellan's downfall was poor tactics. He allowed Lapu-lapu to gather his allies; he could have used the cannons on his ship to soften them up but did not; although ready to, he did not attack at first light; and he only took roughly 50 men with him ashore to face about 1,000+ natives. Magellan had guns! His musketeers and crossbow-men is what held the natives back. It wasn't until Magellan's men burned several huts that natives finally charged in. Still most of Magellan's men retreated back to the ship unharmed.

Quote:

guess swords were not all that.



What? Edged weapons of any kind including knife, dagger, sword and spear (and all other variations of) have been some of the most effective killing tools since man realized he could tie a sharp rock or obsidian to a handle, and are still in use today.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#350014 - 07/13/07 11:42 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: KJ63]
winterwarrior Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 19
Your gonna have to explain this one for me?
easy Magelan lost the philipinos won.
Quote:

Magelan learned that lesson and the island remained unconquered until guns were used.



When you say "the island" you should be more specific since the Philippines is made up of over 7,000 islands. Many of the natives were friendly to Magellan including the king and queen of Cebu. The king of Cebu, Rajah Humabon already had existing problems with a chieftain Lapu-lapu. As Neko456 said Magellan's downfall was poor tactics. He allowed Lapu-lapu to gather his allies; he could have used the cannons on his ship to soften them up but did not; although ready to, he did not attack at first light; and he only took roughly 50 men with him ashore to face about 1,000+ natives. Magellan had guns! His musketeers and crossbow-men is what held the natives back. It wasn't until Magellan's men burned several huts that natives finally charged in. Still most of Magellan's men retreated back to the ship unharmed.
It is still a historic fact that the spanish could not claim the territory fully until they brought guns. check dan inosanto's history of filipino martial arts
Quote:

guess swords were not all that.



What? Edged weapons of any kind including knife, dagger, sword and spear (and all other variations of) have been some of the most effective killing tools since man realized he could tie a sharp rock or obsidian to a handle, and are still in use today.


sticks killed magellan quite well.

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#350015 - 07/16/07 01:22 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: winterwarrior]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Quote:

easy Magelan lost the philipinos won.



You mean the natives won… they were not referred to as Filipino’s until after Spain staked claim and it was named the Philippines after King Philip II. All it proves is that Magellan was outnumbered 20+ to 1, and had nothing to do with Spanish steel.

Quote:

It is still a historic fact that the spanish could not claim the territory fully until they brought guns.



No. It’s not a historic fact. Magellan had guns so the statement is false. He was not there to conquer anyone because when he reached Cebu he had traveled halfway around the world and only had about 150 men left with him because many had died on the way. Magellan was there in an attempt to find a westward route to the Spice Islands so Spain could compete with the English, Portuguese, and Dutch who already had establish trade with the area, not to wage war.

Quote:

check dan inosanto's history of filipino martial arts



If you are actually referring to “The History of Filipino Martial Arts as Taught by Dan Inosanto,” I have it. Although I find the book good, the history section is poorly written. You won’t find it in any history classes because much of it is only based on speculation and folklore, and not on hard facts or written record. My suggestion is that you do some more in-depth research. There are some good posts here. Try reading a few. Armed_Man_Pike has several good links you should read.

Quote:

sticks killed magellan quite well.



If by “sticks” you mean “spears and swords” then yes. According to the only account of the event Magellan was stabbed in the arm and face with a spear, and cut in the leg by a native’s sword. But really who cares? This was no great achievement! Magellan was no skillful Spanish warrior he was a Portuguese sailor and navigator. It is almost comical that people make a big deal out of this event. The natives had 20 to 1 odds and only managed to kill a handful of Spanish soldiers and a Portuguese navigator. If anything it only shows the poor tactics and fighting skills of the natives, and that Magellan was not a great warrior and used poor tactics also.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#350016 - 07/17/07 02:35 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: KJ63]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Anyway... back to the actual topic.

As I said before, it is very clear in the video the guy with the 2-handed sword had no clue what he was doing: hands dropping to his side; turning his back; and moving into the attack. He should have been using a high guard and using his range to his advantage. I also question the ability of the guy with the double sticks: not moving; and expecting his smaller weapon to block a bigger one is not a good tactic. With 2 lighter weapons he should be using them like a palis-palis technique or passing... allowing the bigger weapon to continue on its path and attcking behind it.

As I said before... very poor techniques and not a video I would reccommend unless your wanting examples of how not to do soomething.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#350017 - 08/26/07 02:35 PM Re: A kool kali stick vs sword vid I found! [Re: KJ63]
Gabster Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 2
I believe it gives a viewer an idea of the situation of one longer stick and two shorter ones.

In the art of Kabaroan where they use one long and two short, they have a good understanding of what you can and can not accomplish with either.

Not many of us are going to be carring either of these items around as a general rule. The training that we study is important. The ability to use either one of these types of weapons is what is important.

The arguement that seems to always enter into the FMA is the death of the man who is given the credit finding the islands, and therefore is really something that is foolish when you are talking about the various arts and what they are good for or not.

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