FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 43 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
THEFOREVERMAN 3
MattJ 2
royal 2
Dobbersky 2
ergees 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#349575 - 07/03/07 05:22 PM Should we stop teaching finsihing moves?
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Should we stop teaching finishing moves?

In two recent incident months a parts one at jr. high school and the other in a bar, I blew it off as one sided view of weak undisciple public that delights in being the victim. Or on the outside looking in.

So I ask you the Martial art public, Should we stop teaching finishing moves?

This has become a topic of what is morally right or trying to be seen proper in societies eyes.

Incident 1; a young lady is attacked she counters and sweeps the attacker following with a side kick to the face of the now downed subject, temporailly stopping the aggression. To on looker because she was smaller it was an aggressive but adequate defense. But she and her parents got a caution to be careful she could hurt someone.

2nd Incident student is attacked basic sucker he does the duck, punch the grion and ankle,knee dump, mounts and strikes until unconcisous, leaves the bar. From the saftey of his car cell phones ambulance so does the people in the bar. Subject arouse before ambulance arrives but is taken anyway. The stories different only because there is difference in opinon between on watchers some say the guy on the ground was still a threat, bc he wasstill struggling other say he wasn't. He escapes jail for battery by the skin of his teeth.

I did ask them piece together their responce as a learning tool and self evaluation. And leave it along if you couldn't think of another way out you did the right thing.

Of course he is concern. I counsel the parents of the female student and this adult. I explain that this is what we do, you have to learn to monitor yourself, when enough is enough. But what you dare not do, is be loaded half bear.

I won't stop teaching finishing, its so important in what we do. What do you say? Negative and positive.

I've been over confidence and had students barely make it through or got the crap kick out them, not finishing.

You hear all the time of the aggressor beating the hell out of the victim, who is looking out for the victim? But the Victim, cops are usually too late.

My final resolution if you don't think its worth fighting for RUNN!!!! Done it plenty times myself.


Edited by Neko456 (07/03/07 05:24 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#349576 - 07/06/07 03:28 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
when I was in the service, we used to do something called "verification of killing" - basically, any enemy down, you then put two rounds in his head, just to make sure. this was started after experience of "down" enemy getting up and shooting you from behind. the idea sunk in.

I walk slowly, and I run slowly. I don't want a threat behind me - as far as I am concerned, I am not getting involved in violence if there isn't a real threat involved. and I would expect the same from anyone I tought. I would teach to continue fighting until the threat is gone.

Top
#349577 - 07/24/07 05:24 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Absolutely keep teaching them,

They are absolutely vital and if you're in a real situation the lack of follow through could get you killed. Unfortunately, if you do the killing you could very possibly end up doing jail time for it; it's all open to interperetation by onlookers and the jury/judge, etc. So the hard part is knowing when that decision needs to be made.

Every decision in life has consequences. You just have to teach that fact along with your finishes.

ps. just my opinion,,, but most bar fights don't fall into that category of unavoidable self defense. They're usually ego and alcohol driven. Mutual combat where the one with the most visible damage will probably win the legal argument. ( vague generalization of course )
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#349578 - 07/24/07 05:43 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: JMWcorwin]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
If you listened to SOME folks, their ENTIRE ARTS are nothing but a collection of "finishing moves"...


-John

Top
#349579 - 07/25/07 02:12 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Is that were your art is founded, I'd say it better be if you going to commit to being on the ground. Maybe I'm lost in my own world but to me Chokes, locks and submission cranks are all finishing moves. But a past JKD man U are capable of anything.

What we see as finishing moves are different then what the public sees as finishing moves. They believe since you are trained that you should let him recover from a grion or leg kick, or being dazed by a strike whereas if he hurts you thats where the boot or the KO haymaker comes in.

There is a double standard they think that you should control your aggression but let him fight blindly out of aggression. Key words help define your legal P.C. defense, I met his level of aggression.

In legal or hindsight they feel that you have the situation under-control and that you can easily hurt/defeat any attacker. While in another since the attacker believes you pratcice that fancy stuff and it can't hurt him. Until its too late and he is in the court room in a neck brace and sunday school eyeglasses, looking like a chour boy.

I agree with the other finish until the aggression stops or threat is gone. Some fools like druggies or drunks will keep getting up bloodied and battered. Then you have to be your bros keeper, and run before they get back up.

I know I told this story at least 30 times, I had a hard headed student that came to me saying that his techniques are not working, in this fight. He explained that he was KNOCKING THIS GUY DOWN and the guy kept getting back up (they were fighting over a girl and she was present amazing what tight jeans can do a mans pshyce). Anyway I informed him that it worked but you were too busy admiring how it work not to finish. If you don't want him to get up stomp his ankle or knee while its lying flat on the ground. There ain't no script writen for you.


Edited by Neko456 (07/25/07 02:13 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#349580 - 07/26/07 07:15 AM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
KickSlipTrickYa Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 16
Before you use a finishing move you need to consider what the fight is even over. Are you being mugged with a knife or did someone call you a name. See, you don't need to beat the hell out of someone, errr allways ^.^

Top
#349581 - 07/26/07 01:21 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: globetrotter]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Quote:

when I was in the service, we used to do something called "verification of killing" - basically, any enemy down, you then put two rounds in his head, just to make sure. this was started after experience of "down" enemy getting up and shooting you from behind. the idea sunk in.


A man after my own heart, But no really thats some pretty callous stuff, but effective its amazing how they go togather. Theres no better way be sure then to double tapping, I mean double check.

Man thats as real as it gets, just the thought of it. Take no prisoner so u don't leave your back open. After being on those type mission is it hard to adapt to civilization?
Must have been a hell of a de-briefing.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#349582 - 07/30/07 02:58 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
[quote After being on those type mission is it hard to adapt to civilization?
Must have been a hell of a de-briefing.




you have no idea.

Top
#349583 - 07/30/07 05:45 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Neko456:

<<Should we stop teaching finishing moves?

Your response answers your own question! The response to the former situation sounds bizarre even though I can see it happening. Inane response. A smaller, person protected themselves period and stopped the situation from escalating.
Necessary beats "right"... which in that situation was wholely and completely interchangable

<<My final resolution if you don't think its worth fighting for RUNN!!!!

Can I get an Amen fellow members! I advocate running first myself. Fight if you cannot get away... trick, cajole your way free

Jeff

Top
#349584 - 07/30/07 06:09 PM Re: Should we stop teaching finsihing moves? [Re: Neko456]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

in opinon between on watchers some say the guy on the ground was still a threat, bc he wasstill struggling other say he wasn't




This kind of thing really bothers me. I can't tell you how many times when I was doing door work the following would happen:

1. They were asked to leave and refused.
2. Were asked again, nicely. Refused, took an agressive posture and said "MAKE ME!"
3. Were asked a third time, told they were trespassing, and I would have to use force if they continued to refuse.
4. Would again say "WHY DON'T YOU F&*KING MAKE ME!!!". I would grab them, lock them up.
5. They would whimper and curse as they were escorted out.
6. Other customers would come up to me, or the other doorman, [censored] off, telling us "There was no reason to make it physical".(!)

Sometimes, the person would rush at me, or one of my coworkers and the same thing, we'd lock him, throw him out. And some people would come up to us telling us how unnecessary 'that' was, on our part. Of course, others would tell us we did a good job.

I've seen the same thing happen to cops on many occasions, when a suspect refused to obey, becomes violent, is taken down, and people start screaming 'abuse'.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga