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#349083 - 06/29/07 02:06 PM Teaching on a forum?
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
In spired by developments in another thread:

Do any of you feel that you actually TEACH on here? If you do, how do you compare that to you feelings about video and other non-personal instruction?

Do you say "you can't learn from books or videos" while still "teaching" on line"

Do you hold yourself responsible if someone reads a post you made, tries your method and gets hurt/killed in the process?

My personal view is that we're here to discuss, not formally instruct.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#349084 - 06/29/07 03:05 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: jpoor]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Do any of you feel that you actually TEACH on here? If you do, how do you compare that to you feelings about video and other non-personal instruction?




I don't feel that martial arts can be accurately transmitted electronically. Tips and pointers one can glean, but there is no teaching without doing.

I don't think of myself as a teacher here on the forums.

Quote:

Do you say "you can't learn from books or videos" while still "teaching" on line"?




No. You can learn *something* from videos and other media, just as you can here. This is more of an idea exchange.

Quote:

Do you hold yourself responsible if someone reads a post you made, tries your method and gets hurt/killed in the process?




No. Accidents happen. And many stupid actions have laws attached to them. Just because I say "XYZ technique can kill someone" doesn't give anyone the right to go actually try it.

That said, I am mindful that there are idiots reading what we write here, and self edit as needed.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#349085 - 06/29/07 03:10 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: jpoor]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Just to fold in a similar post:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...rt=all&vc=1

PS. Wouldn't attempting to teach MA via forum fall under the category of 'distance learning'?

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#349086 - 06/29/07 03:10 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: jpoor]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Do you hold yourself responsible if someone reads a post you made, tries your method and gets hurt/killed in the process?






If someone takes something they saw online and goes out and gets themselves hurt or killed, I'd say give them a Darwin award.

But jokes I think learning on a forum can be dangerous. IF you are a student or new to the arts you have no way to gauge if a person has any knowledge or they just watch UFC.

If you are a trained MA them you probably are not going to learn much in the way of MA on a forum. IMO

You may learn some history, or get an insight as to how others approach things, but thats about it.

I agree it's really a place for discussion and heated diagreements.
_________________________
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#349087 - 06/29/07 03:25 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: jpoor]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I'll just put my post from the other thread in here:

Quote:

Good question. It comes down to asking yourself, what is teaching? I believe that teaching is influencing peoples' beliefs and understanding by exposing them to new information.

Let me put it this way, I can honestly say I have learned a lot from being on these forums. Therefore, someone was teaching me by posting on these forums. By reading these posts, I was learning and being taught.

Of course, I know enough to judge if what I read is nonsense or whether it is valuable information, because of my 18 years of MA training. But many people don't have that experience or knowledge and can't adequately make such judgments. It's easy to say something and leave out information to convince someone of something which may not be true. This can be especially true if someone doesn't know that what they're teaching is incomplete. Misinformation, intentional or unintentional, is the bane of free speech.




To add a bit:

Quote:

Do any of you feel that you actually TEACH on here? If you do, how do you compare that to you feelings about video and other non-personal instruction?




I feel that I do teach when I post on this forum. Not that I have a syllabus or anything. I do not teach martial arts on this forum, that's impossible; I teach about martial arts. There's a big difference between the two.

This is a distinction that I would like to make. I do not teach techniques, I teach information, attitudes, philosophies. These can be conveyed over written and non-personal means. The majority of martial arts videos attempt (frequently unsuccessfully) to teach techniques. I do not believe in this kind of teaching. Contrast this to texts which teach primarily about attitudes towards fighting and martial arts, such as Dead or Alive, the Gift of Fear and various texts on www.nononsenseselfdefense.com. These do not focus on techniques, but rather ways of thinking about self defense. These are valuable texts from which a student can learn about self defense. However, a text describing how to use a joint lock in written form is not going to do a student much good.

Quote:

Do you say "you can't learn from books or videos" while still "teaching" on line"




It's not so simple as that, refer to my previous explanation.

Quote:

Do you hold yourself responsible if someone reads a post you made, tries your method and gets hurt/killed in the process?




Not legally responsible, of course, unless I hypothetically forced that person into a situation where they were hurt. No, but my conscience would weigh upon me if something I taught were to cause someone to be hurt; where if they did not know what I taught, they would have escaped unscathed. This is why I am not teaching formally yet, I feel that I am far too inexperienced to bear that burden.

Many a child has been hurt as the result of copying something they found online.

I understand now that many people would not feel this way if something they taught caused someone to be hurt. I can now understand why so many bullshido self defense courses exist in the world.

Quote:

My personal view is that we're here to discuss, not formally instruct.




I agree that there is no formal instruction on this or any other forum. However, whether you like it or not, you influence peoples beliefs and are therefore teaching them by what you post. It's worth remembering that when you pose yourself as an authority on a subject and state that the way you train will save someone's life.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/29/07 03:31 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#349088 - 06/29/07 03:29 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: Leo_E_49]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Some good points. I'll have to check out "Dead or Alive." I have the gift of fear already. Philosophy on-line, yeah I can see that.

I don't think ANYONE can say what they teach, in any format, _will_ save someone's life. "This _could_ save your life," maybe.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

Top
#349089 - 06/29/07 03:34 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: jpoor]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Yes, there are no guarantees in self defense, of course, but if you are an ethical self defense instructor, you should give your students the best chance of surviving that you can.

I think it comes down to whether you can justify what you've taught. If you can say to yourself "I've given them the best chance they can have at surviving an altercation and without what I taught them, they would have a lower chance of survival", as long as you're informed about all the other self defensive philosophies out there, you're probably doing the right thing.

Because if what you teach actually lowers your students' chances of survival (and this is a definite possibility), you should not be teaching self defense. Closed-mindedness frequently prevents instructors from seeing that their instruction may actually cause their students harm.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/29/07 03:38 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#349090 - 06/29/07 08:42 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: Leo_E_49]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
I think it's possible to educate people along certain lines but to teach martial arts via the written word (and without pictures to boot) isn't realistic.


-John

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#349091 - 06/29/07 11:04 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: JKogas]
FightingSpirit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 30
I believe the forum is an excellent means of sharing thoughts and not actions.

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#349092 - 06/29/07 11:23 PM Re: Teaching on a forum? [Re: FightingSpirit]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Since martial arts are learned "through the body", unless you can transmit those feelings and understandings electronically, the forum is just that... a place for discussions. Can you transmit information... absolutely. Can they improve your training... sure. Can they teach you a martial art or improve your method of training?... oops... getting into swampy water here...

The forums are great places to bounce ideas off each other, and to iron out philosophical issues. If you have "structural" problems, you can get help here. If it's a "method" problem, it can get sticky. If you need resources, you have a lot of informational help here.

Like a book can outline the training methods, kata movements, etc., the forums can also provide that kind of information. Whether or not you can trust the data requires knowledge of the person supplying it. Everybody can sound like an expert on the boards, but whether or not their knowledge is actually based on anything solid remains to be seen.

I've met a lot of martial arts teachers that are described as "real good" by novices... and had almost zero actual skills against somebody with real skills, so I tend to take information and weigh it against my own knowledge and the collective knowledge of the people I practice with.

As for "teaching on a forum", it is limited to things that can be taught with words. There aren't too many things in martial arts that are learned by that method.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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