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#348532 - 06/29/07 02:35 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: MattJ]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Maybe we're tripping on terminology. In my mind, if you choke someone out, they didn't submit. Just as if in UFC you break an arm during an arm bar and the ref stops the fight. It wasn't a submission, it was stopped due to injury.

M-W defines: (2&3 apply in my mind)
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin submission-, submissio act of lowering, from submittere
Date:
14th century

1 a: a legal agreement to submit to the decision of arbitrators b: an act of submitting something (as for consideration or inspection); also : something submitted (as a manuscript)
2: the condition of being submissive, humble, or compliant
3: an act of submitting to the authority or control of another.



If submission means "a move that in a competition would cause the opponent to tap out, but in the real world is carried through to the break/choke out, etc" then OK.


Edited by jpoor (06/29/07 02:39 PM)
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#348533 - 06/29/07 02:40 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: jpoor]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Could the 'SD' types please explain something to a newbie...where is the concept of meeting force with equal force? Of action with same level of action? The fight is brought to you...but you have a choice (mostly) in the level of response.

I once saw a MMA cadet attacked at the beach bar by a couple of burly locals. He had studied Han pool (sp?), and redirected every attack by sending them flying. No broken arms.

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#348534 - 06/29/07 02:42 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: harlan]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
How did the big burly locals fair upon landing? Could they regroup and continue either mentally or physically?

Edit: I go for meeting force with overwhelming force if I can.


Edited by jpoor (06/29/07 02:44 PM)
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#348535 - 06/29/07 02:46 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: jpoor]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
It was lovely. Yes...they got f**ked up...you might say they flew further comensurate to the degree that they attacked him. One bigger fellow was peristant...but the cadet never 'followed up' the redirection with another technique.

Was he foolish not to respond with a higher level of force? Don't know...he wasn't about to screw up officer's school by breaking some locals' arms.

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#348536 - 06/29/07 02:51 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: jpoor]
olga Offline
TKOlga
TKOlga

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 174
Loc: northern virginia
Quote:

Oh, and if it's not your life (health too) on the line, then why engage at all?



I agree. If it's a drunk uncle, you can just walk away. There is no need to prove to him what you can and cannot do. Just give him more vodka.

On the other hand, if you are in a real confrontation, there might not be enoug time to decide whether you should only humiliate the attacker of physically hurt him. No one has the right to be physically obnoxious with you or anyone else, and if it comes down to a situation in which you feel threatened and cannot just walk away, you should defend until the threat is no longer there.

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#348537 - 06/29/07 02:55 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
I think you have to assume for sake of argument that the SD techniques are for a real attacker, not the drunk uncle Bobs of the world.

If that is the case then technique should leave the attacker incapacitated. In application this could mean should mean on the ground or running away.

Matt I am surprised you say AKK leaves people on the ground 40-50% of the time, I don't know a technique that leaves anyone standing ever. Either you drop them with a strike or throw them to the ground, at least in my experience.

Granted AKK is not my primary art so I could be wrong.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#348538 - 06/29/07 02:58 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: olga]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
JPoor brings up a question about 'terminology'. Is it accepted that 'self-defense' is a concept applied only in life-threatening situations (i.e. Olga's 'real confrontation')?

(oops...crossposted with Kimo)


Edited by harlan (06/29/07 02:59 PM)

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#348539 - 06/29/07 03:19 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: harlan]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I once saw a MMA cadet attacked at the beach bar by a couple of burly locals. He had studied Han pool (sp?), and redirected every attack by sending them flying. No broken arms.




This is actually an interesting point, he played with them a bit maybe in attempt to let them see the errors of their ways. Personally I can go either way on this, I have been in a similar situation where I knew I outmatched the guy and he was drunk.

After his first attempt where I harmlessly through him down, I warned him if he tried again I would hurt him, badly and he stopped.

If the locals kept coming I think he should have increased the force, IMO. Maybe he felt comfortable in his situation that he didn't feel the need to hurt them, but that can be dangerous.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#348540 - 06/29/07 03:32 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: harlan]
olga Offline
TKOlga
TKOlga

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 174
Loc: northern virginia
Things can also be different if you are a woman. For example, a big guy might be able to choose to toy around with the attacker to teach him a lesson and risk a second attack, if the bad guy is not incapacitated or scared enough to run away. A smaller woman, however, cannot risk a second attack. I am in class with a lot of big guys and if any of them managed to punch or kick me full force in the head or strategically in the body, they will probably kill me, or bring me very close to it.

So when I train in self-defense, I train to follow through. Even if it is a drunk guy in a bar who is too touchy-feely. If I am cornered and cannot escape, hopefully, once I am done defending myself, the attacker will either be on the floor in pain or running for his life.

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#348541 - 06/29/07 03:38 PM Re: POLL - Your self defense techniques [Re: olga]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Jeez, Olga. Would you break a guys arm just because he was looking to cop a feel?

Seems to me self defense is situational, and along a continuum. Can someone clarify...does 'self defense' only apply in life threatening situations? Then the only 'self defense' this guy had was situational awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7HtapvNyOo&eurl=

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