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#347795 - 06/20/07 03:35 PM Effective SD Grappling
olga Offline
TKOlga
TKOlga

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 174
Loc: northern virginia
Since there has been so much talk lately about applying grappling in Self Defense, can someone qualified please find and post a few videos into this thread of some SD-effective grappling techniques? Something non-sport please.
I don't know much about groundwork, so I am very curious to see the other end of the spectrum.

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#347796 - 06/20/07 03:45 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: olga]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I'm afraid that I don't understand your question. Most grappling techniques are the same whether you do them in competition or in self defense. It is relatively simple to change the strategy from "I won't hurt you/sport" to "I'm going to wreck your world/SD" . The techniques themselves are going to be almost identical.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#347797 - 06/20/07 04:25 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: MattJ]
olga Offline
TKOlga
TKOlga

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 174
Loc: northern virginia
So most techniques are effective? Like what I would observe in a UFC match?
I just figured that some techniques worked better for SD and others for sport.

For example, in striking martial arts, something like a jumping spining back kick or whatever is probably not the best thing to use "on the street," but it is still a part of the style, only mainly it is reserved for competition. Some techniques are long-winded and complex, while others get right to the point.

What about something like this? It just seems like it's taking a long time and these guys are totally preoccupied with each other. What if this was a multiple attacker situation? Is either of them prepared to defend against the others?

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#347798 - 06/20/07 04:29 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: olga]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Check out this video by Helio Gracie. Self defense and grappling ... excellent.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkv4d_key-ta-gracie-system

I agree with Matt, Self Defense, Competition, etc. ... there is such a fine line with very little differences. In most cases it comes down to ... I'm not stopping if you tap.
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#347799 - 06/20/07 04:38 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: olga]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hmmm..... I think I see what you mean. What you are seeing there is a grappling competition. Strikes are not allowed, and neither are multiple opponents, so neither of those factors weigh in this event. However, the actual positions and submissions are the same otherwise. Multiple opponents would be a problem anyway!

But I guess you mean something like this:

http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=254

Good control position that allows for submission or quick stnd-up.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#347800 - 06/20/07 06:05 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Olga,

Follow this statement.

An armbar executed in a tournament setting, can result in a broken arm if, a "tap out" is not given.

That same armbar is the one you would use in a fight. Obviously you would not abide by the tournaments rules of engagement on the street and you would simply break the arm. Does that make it any clearer?

I don't know if I can make it any more OBVIOUS than that.

The choke renders unconsciousness. Can we all not see ANY self-defense application there? What about locks which break arms, shoulders, necks, legs???

No self-defense application there?

What about when you're taken down and mounted (sure, I know it can't happen to anyone on THIS forum, but play along please)?

Now all of that time you spent practicing those mount escapes, enables you to escape unharmed --- is that not self-defense training?

What about all of the experience you gain from grappling and learning how to defend from submissions? Is that not self-defense??

Folks, self-defense is a BY PRODUCT of your training! Why this isn't more obvious to people is baffling.


-John

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#347801 - 06/21/07 01:18 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: JKogas]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Folks, self-defense is a BY PRODUCT of your training! Why this isn't more obvious to people is baffling.





Self Defense is a study unto itself that utilizes the training. But how and when to apply is an active process not a by product.
_________________________
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#347802 - 06/21/07 01:38 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: JKogas]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
Quote:

Olga,

Follow this statement.

An armbar executed in a tournament setting, can result in a broken arm if, a "tap out" is not given.

That same armbar is the one you would use in a fight. Obviously you would not abide by the tournaments rules of engagement on the street and you would simply break the arm. Does that make it any clearer?

I don't know if I can make it any more OBVIOUS than that.

The choke renders unconsciousness. Can we all not see ANY self-defense application there? What about locks which break arms, shoulders, necks, legs???

No self-defense application there?

What about when you're taken down and mounted (sure, I know it can't happen to anyone on THIS forum, but play along please)?

Now all of that time you spent practicing those mount escapes, enables you to escape unharmed --- is that not self-defense training?

What about all of the experience you gain from grappling and learning how to defend from submissions? Is that not self-defense??

Folks, self-defense is a BY PRODUCT of your training! Why this isn't more obvious to people is baffling.


-John




Enough said! Great post John!
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#347803 - 06/21/07 01:51 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: JKogas]
olga Offline
TKOlga
TKOlga

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 174
Loc: northern virginia
Quote:

Olga,

Follow this statement.

An armbar executed in a tournament setting, can result in a broken arm if, a "tap out" is not given.

That same armbar is the one you would use in a fight. Obviously you would not abide by the tournaments rules of engagement on the street and you would simply break the arm. Does that make it any clearer?

I don't know if I can make it any more OBVIOUS than that.

The choke renders unconsciousness. Can we all not see ANY self-defense application there? What about locks which break arms, shoulders, necks, legs???

No self-defense application there?

What about when you're taken down and mounted (sure, I know it can't happen to anyone on THIS forum, but play along please)?

Now all of that time you spent practicing those mount escapes, enables you to escape unharmed --- is that not self-defense training?

What about all of the experience you gain from grappling and learning how to defend from submissions? Is that not self-defense??

Folks, self-defense is a BY PRODUCT of your training! Why this isn't more obvious to people is baffling.


-John




John, you forgot to post some videos. Thank you for your post, but my question was not to define self-defense, I only asked to see some videos of effective technique.

Your mocking tone was unnecessary.

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#347804 - 06/21/07 02:14 PM Re: Effective SD Grappling [Re: Kimo2007]
Xibalba Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Lansing, MI, USA
Quote:

But how and when to apply is an active process not a by product.




Hi Kimo.

Isn't the "how and when to apply [technique]" best learned via sparring resisting opponents? And, my impression is that some strictly "self-defense" schools don't necessarily practice sparring in a "live" context against resisting opponents.

Peace,
Mike

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