FightingArts
Estore |
Pressure
Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit
that can save your life. |
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks
with this method. |
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique
and lasting. |
Karate
Uniforms
Look your best.
Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak
Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.
|
MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores. |
|
|
|
0 registered (),
87
Guests and
1
Spider online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
22738 Members
36 Forums
35473 Topics
431968 Posts
Max Online: 307 @ 02/21/13 09:36 AM
|
|
|
#347596 - 06/25/07 06:31 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: cxt]
|
wants to be loved
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
|
Yes, very valid reasons.
When the UFC is reduced to some rediculous form of professional wrestling, then weight classes are absolutely necessary.
Damn near any type of technique that could be an equalizer to straight wrestling/limited striking is against the rules. Therefore, what was originally an art-vs-art concept is now just a sport which is focused much more on athleticism. It's been reduced to just another money-making sport.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347597 - 06/25/07 06:36 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Jim_Judy]
|
Professional Poster
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA
|
Jim Judy
And that has nothing to do with weight classes, "Spud" Webb, or the use of weight classes by Boxing, Wrestling etc.
There are weight classes for good and valid reasons--namely that unless your really skilled, size and weight count big in fighting---grappling in particular.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347598 - 06/25/07 06:55 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: cxt]
|
wants to be loved
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
|
Did you watch any of the early UFCs? Strikers were taking guys out left & right until BJJ caught on, the rules got amped up to remove anything that the grapplers would consider "dirty fighting" so then everyone had to learn that silly ringfighting BJJ so that they could compete. Next we see overly strong guys with rudimentary grappling, such as we saw in UFC3 with Kimo & Royce Gracie, that BJJ can't handle. So, we end up with a bunch of yoked guys fighting while trying to catch up to the Gracies and their groundfighting monopoly.
I can't believe that people still think that this MMA sport can be used to accurately gauge the validity of real martial arts.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347599 - 06/25/07 07:10 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Jim_Judy]
|
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific
Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15629
Loc: York PA. USA
|
Quote:
Did you watch any of the early UFCs? Strikers were taking guys out left & right until BJJ caught on,
Taking out other strikers, you mean? Shamrock, Severn, and Gracie practically mauled all of their (pure striker) competition.
Quote:
the rules got amped up to remove anything that the grapplers would consider "dirty fighting" so then everyone had to learn that silly ringfighting BJJ so that they could compete.
As I have noted before, the early UFC's were actually a good accurate gauge of "dirty fighting" effectiveness. Only a few techniques were disallowed in the first few UFC's.
Quote:
Next we see overly strong guys with rudimentary grappling, such as we saw in UFC3 with Kimo & Royce Gracie, that BJJ can't handle.
Not sure of your point there, Jim. Kimo lost by submission!  How is that "not handling"? And, as you pointed out, Kimo was MUCH bigger and stronger (and a better striker) than Royce - by FAR. But he still lost.
Royce also beat a much bigger/better striker Ken Shamrock - convincingly - until Ken started taking BJJ lessons.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347600 - 06/25/07 07:23 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Jim_Judy]
|
Prolific
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
|
Quote:
Did you watch any of the early UFCs? Strikers were taking guys out left & right until BJJ caught on, the
Uh…BJJ “caught on” at UFC 1. At that point, only one practitioner was there (Royce) and he wasn’t even considered great by most standards.
Quote:
rules got amped up to remove anything that the grapplers would consider "dirty fighting" so then everyone had to learn that silly ringfighting BJJ so that they could compete.
The rules were the same for EVERYONE, grappler or striker alike, so how would rules changes affect anything execept to make things easier for the strikers (stand-ups, etc)?
Quote:
Next we see overly strong guys with rudimentary grappling, such as we saw in UFC3 with Kimo & Royce Gracie, that BJJ can't handle.
That “BJJ can’t handle?” First of all, make sure your facts are right. Royce BEAT Kimo. Secondly, BJJ doesn’t fight anyone - people do. That's pretty basic but important to understand.
Quote:
So, we end up with a bunch of yoked guys fighting while trying to catch up to the Gracies and their groundfighting monopoly.
Pretty astounding isn’t it? I mean considering that some skinny, unauthentic kid beat a bunch of much bigger strikers. That’s a fairly strong testament.
Quote:
I can't believe that people still think that this MMA sport can be used to accurately gauge the validity of real martial arts.
What it does is gauge the validity of one’s ability to perform. That’s all. Again, what OTHER evenly matched scenario might do this better?
Just a question. Don’t get all irregular because someone asked lol
-John
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347601 - 06/25/07 07:54 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Jim_Judy]
|
Veteran
Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
|
Quote:
Loren Christensen has repeatedly stated the benefits of striking arts over grappling or ground fighting. As a career LEO with many more real life fights than any of us under his belt, I'd say he has an expert opinion worth listening to. Here is an article about Knife Attacks & the possibilities of facing a knife WHEN NOT IN THE RING...
Knife Attacks & Reality Article
Donn Draeger noted in his book "The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia" that some of the Malay/Indonesian peoples do practice grappling arts, or integrated some Judo or Jujutsu into their arts, they didn't practice groundfighting even if grappling for sport, and the more combative tribes would only practice grappling for sport or exercise but would never use it in actual combat. These peoples are, along with Filipinos, the most prolific wearers & users of blades in the world. Knives and multiple attackers are part & parcel to their systems, & they choose to not grapple for a reason. Read the book!
Here are two articles about ground fighting and blades from Joe Maffei, a guy that knows something about it, and how it greatly differs from any unarmed ground fighting. According to him, the average NHB fighter is totally unprepared, regardless of what they may think...
Groundfighting & Knives #1
Groundfighting & Knives #2
How can grappling not be used in combat? So in combat they all abide by rules?
Here is a reality check about knife defences.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0
There were specific police forces who did the same kind of tests. Same results.
The drums in this are good.
Paul plays a mean set of drums. I dont know the guy but he talks sense.
So seeing this video then establishing a defence after the first thrust seems logical. Whats your answer to a guy who asks what do I do after the first thrust has gone in?
You laugh?
Jude
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347602 - 06/25/07 08:00 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: jude33]
|
Professional Poster
Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4115
Loc: California
|
From what I hear, it's only in recent years that striking has been making a comeback in MMA...
I didn't know pure strikers who adamantly defend the concept of one-track MA training still existed. I guess the UFC hasn't taught everyone the lesson that it was expected to.
Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/25/07 08:03 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347603 - 06/25/07 08:02 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Leo_E_49]
|
Prolific
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
|
Quote:
From what I hear, it's only in recent years that striking has been making a comeback in MMA...
Absolutely. There are two primary reasons why. 1) EVERYONE understands how to grapple now (because it's mandatory) and 2) Rules changes were created to even things up in order to provide a greater edge for the strikers (done to generate more excitement for a primarily non-grappling fan base).
-John
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#347604 - 06/25/07 10:28 PM
Re: Why did ground fighting fall to the way side?
[Re: Jim_Judy]
|
Professional Poster
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA
|
Jim Judy Ah, Jim, I'm talking about WEIGHT CLASSES, not "strikers" etc. If you go back and read my posts---I know that actually reading the things people write rather than just responding to stuff that isn't there might be a reach for you--you will find that I pretty neatly established that weight classes exsist in all sorts of areas-and for very good reasons. If you prefer, then weight classes in Judo, Boxing, Olympic Wrestleing, etc. As mentioned, there are very few "Spud" Webbs---and very few Gracies for that matter. Tell you what---if your just wanting to use this thread as you own personal "blog" where you just say whatever you want and make whatever comments you want--regardless of what people are actually saying--just say so and I won't waste my time trying to explain things to you. 
Edited by cxt (06/25/07 10:30 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Untitled Document
Self
Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray,
tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.
Pepper
Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos,
stun guns, Tasers and more.
Spy
Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment,
Pocket DVR's and more
Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Topic
Index
