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#345622 - 06/20/07 12:29 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: eyrie]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

learning to hold and wield a long sword correctly is a function of effectiveness.


Sorry, that should read ..."learning to hold and wield a long sword correctly so as to inflict the appropriate amount of damage is a function of effectiveness."

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#345623 - 06/20/07 01:41 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: eyrie]
aikidonut Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 100
I am asking for other's opinions. I read what you said, and to comment on your comments would be to go off topic.

in both throws , i take 2 steps each about 5 feet wide, and the the last step ends with a slide step of the rear foot, a common tai sabaki (foot technique )from the bokto ( sword ) movements. So I was trying to use the ground, as you said.

if the throw wasn't pretty, the proof was in the pudding,it did move my uke,the 220 pounder ( how much is that in stone?) who, I guarantee, will not fall/let alone breakfall for you if not definitely motivated in that direction. Also, he was grabbing on to my gi during the breakfalls, a common practice in aikido ( the one i do ), and if nage's not keeping his center, nage will FALL down with uke,or lose his gi.

But,..I admit, I am an upper body kind of person, you're right,I could move more from the center.

And, Yes, I agree with your comments about the sword and aikido. Shihonage ( four directions throw, I'm mentioning that for other's benefit, not yours, i know you know..)is the most obvious technique in which you could place a sword in nage's throwing hands, rather than an uke, ..you can see it in the bo-kata, 13 moves ( you know , the one that goes "thir- tee-eee-een"), ( cutting the corners of the room, ending with a large tenkan circular sword move ) . I could video that for MattJ , if he wishes. It is a move detailed in Saotome sensei's book.

Mark

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#345624 - 06/20/07 02:46 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: aikidonut]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

I am asking for other's opinions. I read what you said, and to comment on your comments would be to go off topic.


No, this is your reply to me...

Quote:


wrt to your statement about my empty hand technique, look at my second video on http://youtube.com/watch?v=g-jNVPJ3uuA ,at 1:00-1:05, me doing irimi nage from tsuki on a large sandan,220 lbs of muscle. go ahead. and , I'd like the others' opinions too.


I'm really trying to be "nice", Mark, but you don't seem to take positive or negative criticism too well, unless it's a pat on the back. Perhaps that 4x2 on your shoulder is obscuring your view...

Quote:

in both throws , i take 2 steps each about 5 feet wide, and the the last step ends with a slide step of the rear foot, a common tai sabaki (foot technique )from the bokto ( sword ) movements. So I was trying to use the ground, as you said.


Well, your idea of "using the ground" is not what I meant. I meant use the ground to power the technique - like funekogi. When you're in transition, it is difficult to maintain your balance and connection to the ground. Any slight shift in directional force acting on you can easily topple you. It is this precise reason that faster, harder attacks are easier to deal with than slow, static ones. Think about it.

Quote:

If the throw wasn't pretty, the proof was in the pudding,it did move my uke,the 220 pounder ( how much is that in stone?) who, I guarantee, will not fall/let alone breakfall for you if not definitely motivated in that direction. Also, he was grabbing on to my gi during the breakfalls, a common practice in aikido ( the one i do ), and if nage's not keeping his center, nage will FALL down with uke,or lose his gi.


I've already said this, it's not whether the technique looks "pretty" or not. If anything, real techniques never look pretty. So, let me take it down a couple of notches so you can dissect your own technique and look at ways of improving it, both from an effectiveness and efficiency perspective. Would that be OK with you?

Firstly, it's one step too many, and too big a stride. 5 feet in 2 steps equates to 2.5 feet per stride. BTW, I'm taking your word for it that it is 2 steps of 5 feet, rather than reviewing the vid again. Try timing your entry so you're taking one step of a 1 foot stride, that will place you squarely right inside his maai just as he is stepping forward.

A 220lb person is going to be really hard to move if you clash with his momentum head on, which IIRC, is what you were attempting to do. Instead, step off the line of attack slightly and time your entry to catch him just before he plants his forward foot.

This way, he's almost standing all his weight on one foot, which will make it easier to obtain kuzushi as you redirect his momentum up and over to the rear corner. He should in effect feel like he's run into a jello brick wall. Even if he grabs your gi, you *should* still remain standing and with feet firmly planted. Although it can be quite challenging to support 220lb hanging off you unless you've train to do that.

Also, rather than relying on shoulder strength to effect the kuzushi, try using a funekogi motion forward and down. That way you are utilizing your whole body weight to add to the throw.

Now, does that make sense?

All martial arts are about positional advantage and contest for the line, which involves a whole range of things, least of which has to do with "technique" itself. Technique is simply what happens when you get all the other factors right - position, timing, angle, breathing, posture, etc. etc.

How you get there is thru the "basics" - and by that I don't mean kihon waza. I mean even simpler than that...

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#345625 - 06/20/07 09:32 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: eyrie]
aikidonut Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 100
That's fine, I understand.
I thought I said that already , about staying centered, but you made the point again, and that's fine. yes timing is important. your criticisms have been read, and understood. Thank you for your time and effort.

I am not belabouring anything. everyday is a clean slate.
My only request still,is that you put up a video of your explanations, it would clarify your points especially funekogi, for some of us.
and certainly you bring up some good points which would emphasized well.

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#345626 - 06/20/07 07:14 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: aikidonut]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

That's fine, I understand.
I thought I said that already , about staying centered, but you made the point again, and that's fine. yes timing is important. your criticisms have been read, and understood.


What no questions???? I don't think you do understand what staying "centered" means. I know you can sort of do it, but do you understand what's actually involved in staying centered? Maybe try explaining what you mean.

Quote:

I am not belabouring anything. everyday is a clean slate.


Was it never a clean slate??

Quote:

My only request still,is that you put up a video of your explanations,


Which part of "I do not have a video" did you not understand?

Quote:

it would clarify your points especially funekogi, for some of us.


First tell me what you understand of funekogi, its purpose and how you do it....

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#345627 - 06/20/07 10:04 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: eyrie]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Well guys, this thread is going in circles at this point, so I'm going to have to lock it now. I may unlock it for future generations, but for now it's getting nowhere.

Start a new thread on any unanswered questions you may have (such as funekogi etc.)


Edited by Ames (06/20/07 10:05 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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