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#345552 - 06/06/07 09:39 AM Aikido: Effective Application
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
I'd like to say first that I'm not trying to flame. Some recent discussion with Aikidonut and mild arguing with Oldman has made me consider looking into aikido or at least broadening my knowledge of it.

Looking on youtube reminded me of an old drill I'd seen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QreuuPm24UI, where two Aikidoka were attempting to work against striking. I'd like to know the forums opinion on the drill. Personally I have reservations stemming from the quality of the "boxer," but I like the direction that the drill points in.

Second, how many people in the forum spar regularly and at what level of intensity? Do you exclusively work against aikido techniques or is there an attempt to involve other styles? Note that when I say involve other styles, I mean spar against them, not drill against them ala http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc92c9p2nhw&mode=related&search=

Lastly, how many have cross trained in other styles and how do you consider them to mesh with aikido?

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#345553 - 06/06/07 11:40 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: Viator]
iaibear Offline
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Spar?

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#345554 - 06/06/07 11:55 AM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: iaibear]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
Spar, attempt to simulate fighting and technique application in a free form and randomized environment. Different from a demo in that neither party has prior knowledge of exactly which techniques will be used by the other. Full randori, to use judo's sense of the word. Aikido is often defended as a purely defensive art, but surely one partner would be willing to take an attackers role in sparring for the sake of learning, as in the boxing video above.


Edited by Viator (06/06/07 11:57 AM)

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#345555 - 06/06/07 01:11 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: Viator]
Ames Offline
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Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I liked that first drill as well. As for the quality of the boxer, it was alot better than the over commited attacks that seem so common place in the TMA world in general.

I've known many Aikidokas who have had a friend put on boxing gloves and used tai sabaki to evade. You just have to pass through the begining stages first (against those commited punches). It's the same with knife work, at some point it needs to get a bit more realistic. I think you wouldn't have trouble finding a partner interested in these kinds of drills, assuming you'd spent enough time on the mat learning your basics.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#345556 - 06/06/07 02:58 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: Viator]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Looking on youtube reminded me of an old drill I'd seen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QreuuPm24UI, where two Aikidoka were attempting to work against striking. I'd like to know the forums opinion on the drill. Personally I have reservations stemming from the quality of the "boxer," but I like the direction that the drill points in.




Very interesting! Good find, viator. I haven't seen that before.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#345557 - 06/06/07 03:47 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: MattJ]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
you might enjoy the rush drill then too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJCl6IS_xQ

I found them lurking bullshido a while back. The boxing clip was divided between those who thought it was a good step and would develop better and those that thought that unless they got a better boxer it was delusional and possibly dangerous.
I came down in the former camp, with reservations. They could use some lessons from Pernell Whitaker ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5v_PNsl4Q ) on how to dodge a punch.

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#345558 - 06/06/07 03:53 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: Viator]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

you might enjoy the rush drill then too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJCl6IS_xQ




I like this one, too. I would fall into the first (Bullshido) camp, as well. May not be perfect, but at least they are trying.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#345559 - 06/06/07 09:14 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: MattJ]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I liked the techniques against kicks, and I found a randori clip on one of the other links, but what's missing in most of those is intent. It's clear that nobody was attempting to do much to anybody with either the attacks or the techniques, and while I don't mind a little mindless movement practice, training should reflect a seriousness of purpose. You don't have to knock somebody out to punch with intent, or cause a concussion with your shomenuchi, but it should reflect some element of risk to both parties if you're to develop technique in either the attack or the defense.

A good attack will make you move differently than one that's half-a$$ed that wouldn't hurt if it hit you. I spent almost a whole class with one of our students tonight on that very thing, and he understands now the difference.

"Get out of the way, or I'm going to hit you" has a different meaning than "I'm going to strike at your head"... and if the intent is clear, then you will reflect it in your effort to defend and evade.

Where people make a big mistake in "fighting from grips" in jujutsu, is that they don't do anything but hold on, so there isn't anything to the technique to disarm it. If the guy is grabbing your wrist and trying to punch you in the face, your focus changes... as does his when you apply a solid technique rather than "walking him through it".

There's a real difference between "learning a technique" and "learning a fighting technique"... and it's focused on the intent of your application. If it's to slam the guy into the floor, use an uke with good ukemi skills rather than "walking somebody through it" to practice. If your students need ukemi skills, then throw them at a level they can keep up with, and keep increasing the "heat" on it until they have good skills... but don't cheat the technique to turn the burner down on the technqiue being applied. Simply do the technique in a more controlled manner and let off at the end to match their falling skills.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#345560 - 06/06/07 10:49 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: wristtwister]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
The kicking video is the one I like the least because although the techniques look cool practically none of them would actually work. The one around :19 in particular makes my wrist hurt just thinking about it.

Everytihng else you said essential summed up the reservations I had about the drill. No real follow through, no full extension, because the boxer isn't good enough to know how to pull his punches and still move quickly.

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#345561 - 06/07/07 01:18 PM Re: Aikido: Effective Application [Re: Viator]
aikidonut Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 100
Howdy! found yuz guys again!

yeah, watched the rush drill,.. i agree, found myself wanting to try it, only one thing, which i left a comment on,... those black belt/hakama wearing guys should be dropped down a coupla levels, maybe 3d kyu ( blue belt ) in my dojo..... sorry to be so direct, but that the truth

btw, in my place, you will be tested with ukes using strength, like the rush drill, only they won't knock u down,... if u dont do technique right, the black belts ( shodan and up ) are so well centered, that nothing will push 'em over..and tey'll be standing over you after you have lost balance trying to throw them.if u do the technque right, they have no choice but to fall , and if you do it right and hard, they have no choice but to breakfall out of it....but you will not be tested like that so openly on the mat to the point of being pinned, because of the loss of face which would cause u to practice in the wrong way next time..... ie a bruised ego gets in the way of good practice...something that is easy to say , hard to really learn and put into practice....

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