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#345506 - 06/05/07 08:52 PM BJJ or Judo
Zoso4 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 1
Ive been doing Tae Kwon Do for about 2 years and am going to switch to either Judo or BJJ. Im leaning more toward bjj because of the extensive ground work but don't like what ive heard of a lack of takedowns and falling training in it. While Judo it seems is the opposite with very extensive takedowns and throws but not so much groundwork because of the rules. So basically are they both equal in their own right for self defense or is judo more sport oriented because if i was to do bjj i would have to make a 20 minute hike while judo is right next store to me. Any way thnks in advance.

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#345507 - 06/05/07 08:56 PM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Zoso4]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Try both. See which one is more suitable for you. They're basically the same animal with different strengths.

Go do some free lessons. See if you like either the ground 'n pound aspect or slammin' people aspect.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#345508 - 06/05/07 09:39 PM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Find a judo school that emphasizes ne-waza and you're good to go.


-John

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#345509 - 06/06/07 01:19 AM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: JKogas]
Leonine Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 191
Don't judge a book by it's cover. From your post it sounds like you want a good 50-50, takedowns and ground work. Well, there are both BJJ and Judo schools that do this, so you'll just have to go and see if these schools near you are like this.

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#345510 - 06/06/07 03:09 AM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Zoso4]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
may t3h dim mak be with you
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#345511 - 06/06/07 03:10 PM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: crablord]
Viator Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 172
Judo's right next door. Convenience is always an advantage on those days where you really have to make yourself go train. As for BJJs lack of breakfall, it's usually not a problem because not a lot of guys no much more than a single and double leg anyway, and maybe some clinch throws.

Do one, cross train in the other occasionally.

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#345512 - 06/06/07 08:49 PM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Viator]
Tower_Bloodthorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 67
My advice is take BJJ. Many judo dojos focus solely on throws. The small amount of ne waza that they do practice generally revolves around use of the gi. If you're interested in self defense or no gi competition, judo's throws are incredible, but the groundwork...eh. You can't gi choke a guy who's not wearing a shirt, plus if he is wearing a shirt and you try to use it, you'll probably just rip it, or stretch it out.

I personally prefer quality over quantity. Sure, it's nice to know all 60+ judo throws, but watch guys train in judo when a competition is coming up. They usually find 1 or 2 throws that they like and drill them until they're blue in the face. I take that approach, rather than trying to learn tons of throws I'll probably never use. I really only use 4 or 5 takedowns/ throws personally.

Pick your poison. Do you want to be able to get the fight to the ground and take a dominant position, or do you want to be able to pull off submissions no matter what your opponent is wearing, what position he's in, what position you're in, etc

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#345513 - 06/06/07 10:19 PM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Tower_Bloodthorn]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I actually find no flaw in Judo newaza. It's just people don't spend much time.

It is thus, one of the student's responsibilities to actually train in it often and 'alive'.

Sure there are around 64 throws, not counting the varieties. Me, I actually use upto 15 different throws, not just 1 or 2. To get good with those 15 throws, that's a lot of drilling there.

Also, saying Judo-ka only know gi-grappling is a fallacy. BJJ also works with gi's. Not all schools uses the 'no-gi' policy. Look at my old dojo, we did no-gi judo twice a week. Not many schools do that.

And honestly, a t-shirt choke has actually worked before oddly enough. But not many other shirts work.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#345514 - 06/07/07 12:32 AM Re: BJJ or Judo [Re: Taison]
Tower_Bloodthorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 67
Quote:

I actually find no flaw in Judo newaza. It's just people don't spend much time.

It is thus, one of the student's responsibilities to actually train in it often and 'alive'.



I'm with you on that one, so long as the dojo teaches it and teaches it properly. heck, Hidehiko Yoshida held his own against Royce Gracie. That's basically the epitome of Judo vs. BJJ groundfighting. Anyways, I've trained at two judo dojos now. The first place taught nothing but gi techniques and the one I currently train at focuses primarily on gi techniques, but they sometimes teach no gi (not often). They do teach things like armbars, triangle chokes, naked chokes (all obviously found in judo as well), but it's more gi strangles than anything. Probably since most of the guys there already have some BJJ training under their belts and know most of the techniques which work with or without a gi.

Quote:


Sure there are around 64 throws, not counting the varieties. Me, I actually use upto 15 different throws, not just 1 or 2. To get good with those 15 throws, that's a lot of drilling there.



It takes years to become proficient with that many throws. I believe I've seen you state that you're a black belt in jujutsu. You have years of experience in jujutsu, plus you train in judo. For someone like myself who's never wrestled in school and has only been training for about a year, I won't get much out of trying to work 10+ throws. I have a very small takedown list (at least for the time being, though I may add a few more like uchi mata and harai goshi). Single leg and double leg takedowns are simple, efficient, have a high rate of success, plus they can come immediately following a combination of strikes. I've found that a dropping shoulder throw from a clinch not only works often, but also draws praise from your audience. I also use something like ura nage, only rather than throwing my opponent back and away from me, I pull them back and block their legs out with mine, like a backward yoko otoshi, then I jump to side control.

Quote:

Also, saying Judo-ka only know gi-grappling is a fallacy. BJJ also works with gi's. Not all schools uses the 'no-gi' policy. Look at my old dojo, we did no-gi judo twice a week. Not many schools do that.

And honestly, a t-shirt choke has actually worked before oddly enough. But not many other shirts work.



BJJ guys do more no-gi work than judo guys. BJJ instructors know that a lot of their guys are looking to compete in MMA, or are interested in the ground fighting aspect of MMA. I'd imagine that crowd is where the majority of their students come from. I know they do gi work, but a lot of places are doing less and less gi grappling. Not to mention how many people train no- gi during open mat hours. I've never met anyone who wanted to grapple me in a gi match. The people I know who train all want to roll no-gi.

I'm hoping to offer something to my sensei. I think it would be a good idea if we organized a no-gi judo tournament/ competition. I think that a lot of people avoid judo because they think throws are useless once the gi comes off. I personally believe that this has a lot of potential to show those people that they're actually missing out on an incredible martial art. There would have to be rules set in place to keep wrestlers out, plus there would need to be more time allowed on the ground...not to mention, 30 lashings to anyone who pulls guard.

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