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#344533 - 05/30/07 10:08 PM Circle of the Tiger
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
If any of you have learned this kata and know it fairly well what do you know about it's bunkai or applications and what the central theme of it is? This is from Nick Cerios Kenpo by the way.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#344534 - 05/31/07 05:27 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Stormdragon]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Stormdragon,

NOt sure if I've heard of this form before. I found some clips, is this what you're referring to?

Circle of The Tiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULZtN2JudRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke_UxOWBaBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ezuoRQIjA

Interestingly my search also pulled up the following clip of real tigers circling.

Tigers continue to circle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXhqO8o5KE
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#344535 - 05/31/07 07:57 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Victor Smith]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Storm I think that might be the kata I have, hold up I will check it out right now. LOL I think you just logged off to.
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"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
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#344536 - 05/31/07 08:07 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Stormdragon]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
I studdied Cerio Kenpo for a while, however I did not learn this kata. It was taught at brown belt level and I had to move away just before brown. I believe they did a Circle of Tiger, Leapord and another cat of sorts.
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#344537 - 05/31/07 03:56 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Chatan1979]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I cant find a whole lot about it and I've looked. Anything you got would be helpful Tek thanks.
Yes we have Cat 1-3 but I haven't gotten to them. I'm close to learning Pinan 3.
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#344538 - 06/01/07 08:36 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Chatan1979]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Are these Chinese forms in origin? I had a quick look at the website and history but the mix of dan grades suggesting a Japanese/Okinawan system and people using "Sifu" (i.e Chinese origin) as a title threw me a bit. The form looks to be based on techniqes from some Goju patterns but who knows...

B.

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#344539 - 06/01/07 09:17 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Barad]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Storm that dvd I have of Cerio performing around 20 techniques, he then performs a form at the end, it is the Circle of the Tiger form, it is similar to what those kids performed in those clips, however, there were some slight differences.

I can't believe you practice the pinan katas...How can so many styles of practice that set and get so many different interpretations of bunkai....silly

Kenpo is completely different from Okinawan karate.

Kenpo is Chinese art with Japanese stances. In other words you will see the solid stances of Japanese MA aong with the open, circular hand movements of Chinese Chuan FA.

If you ask me Cerio just picked a kata set to teach his students from. Because he didn't learn those kata from Professor Chow.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#344540 - 06/01/07 12:48 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: TeK9]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
True Tek however I believe Cerio felt that the basic idea of the Okinawan and Japanese katas were very useful and developed better foundation skills than the traditional Kenpo. He liked the basics from thsoe systems. He learned some Shorin Ryu, Kyokushinkai, and Shotokan and adapted many of the katas from these systems into his.
He felt the Kenpo lacked solid stances and footwork, transitions, and general fundamentals so he added these attributes to his system while keeping the core with a Chinese Kenpo point of view.
Your right he didn't learn really any of the katas from Chow I dont think but he felt they were important and good ones came from these other systems so he added them and modified them to fit well with the Kenpo base.
But definitely it's not "pure" kenpo but who the hell carews I mean if it works thats the important things.
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#344541 - 06/12/07 06:07 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Barad]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Are these Chinese forms in origin? I had a quick look at the website and history but the mix of dan grades suggesting a Japanese/Okinawan system and people using "Sifu" (i.e Chinese origin) as a title threw me a bit. The form looks to be based on techniqes from some Goju patterns but who knows...

B.




Hi

I think that these systems might have roots in goju and therefore chinese systems.
My studies of some katas seem to bring up techniques that these guys seem to use with a major or slight change.

I do wish they would show their ideas of applications.

I like Victors 4 th video of tigers circling. Those guys know how to fight and what they do is proven and doesnt need intepretation.Hard core.




Edited by jude33 (06/12/07 06:27 AM)

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#344542 - 06/12/07 06:12 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: TeK9]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I can't believe you practice the pinan katas...How can so many styles of practice that set and get so many different interpretations of bunkai....silly





Might be it seems silly but there are some very good techniques in those katas that do work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRZQpvSZQQ
I have found some videos of karate techniques that work

by the boss of this forum

Sei Shihan Christopher Caile

Rather good isnt he?



Edited by jude33 (06/12/07 06:36 AM)

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#344543 - 06/12/07 08:54 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: jude33]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
These should be posted in the FA.com members in action thread in the M.A.Talk section.
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#344544 - 06/12/07 09:01 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: jude33]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thanks for the link!

Quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRZQpvSZQQ
I have found some videos of karate techniques that work

by the boss of this forum

Sei Shihan Christopher Caile

Rather good isnt he?





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#344545 - 06/12/07 10:20 AM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: JohnL]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

These should be posted in the FA.com members in action thread in the M.A.Talk section.




Done.
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#344546 - 08/23/07 08:20 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: jude33]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I do this kata. I was told that Professor Cerio composed it and that his kata don't have the depth of interpretation that the traditional kata have. He had things in mind when he wrote his kata. I believe that is why the performances in the clips above are so similar when they play out the applications. Nice clips.
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The older I get, the better I was!

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#344547 - 03/06/09 03:23 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Stormdragon]
LastSamurai Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Quebec City, Canada
Hi,

I practice Nick Cerio Kenpo since 3 years now and I'm brown belted. Circle of the Tiger is very diffucult to explain in a text but I'll try. This kata brings you to defend yourself agains enemies that are all around you. First someone at your left wants to hook you in you face (so you bloc and then punch him back in his stomac). Same thing at your right. After another enemy in front of you (you're at 45 degree on your right) comes with a stick or a katana to strike you on the top of your head. You X bloc this strike, grab his wrisp and pull him down to kick his face on your right knee.
Then another enemy comes behind you with the same type of attack followed with a right left kick. So you X bloc again and then bloc his kick with your left harm in kokutsu position to finish with an upper left bloc and a right punch in his stomac. Then you finish him with a right side kick in his legs, stomac or head. Now you are posotioned 90 degre right from your initial position. You have an upper right bloc and a left punch to give simultaneously on your right and the same movement on your left. I don't remember the name of this sequence but it's to bloc a strike on the top of your head and give to the enemy a stomac punch at the same time (and samething at your left).
Once the left bloc-strike done, you grab the head (or hears) of your left enemy and slide your right harm and leg at his feet so you swing him on the floor and you finish him with a right downward punch in his face with a Kyaï.
You rise up at 45 degree to your left and have to bloc a direct punch coming to your. So you move backward you left foot and strike the enemy harm between your left and right harm in order to break his elbow (lever action). Moving your right leg forward at 45 degree in his direction, you finish him with a shuto to the throat.
Another one comes directly at your right (left side of the previous enemy), so you backstrike him in his face with your right hand or fist. This combination of harm movement (shuto and backstrike) must be done very rapidly and requires precision.
Then looking at an enemy at your left (normaly your should be positioned in front of him meaning 180 degree from your start position), you "Tiger claw" him in his face and give him a palmstrike in his chest. You the finish him with a right sidekick followed by the same sequence of upper bloc/strike explained previously (right and left side..) Oufff
Then, being positioned at 90 degree from your initial position, you have to bloc a kick coming at your left with your two harms simultaneously. You finsih this sequence with a right low kick in his legs and show to the juges how you can keep your balance

Now you're looking at the juges; you have an enemy at your left who grab your hears. You hold his hand behind your head with your right hand and with your left hand, strike his elbow "bottom-up" in order to break. You give him a left low side kick in his legs. You grab his head with your left hand and right shuto him at the throat. You grab his shoulders with your two hands and pull his chest down on your right knee. Then you push him backward and finish him with a two hands shuto in his collarbone.
Finally, you come back in front of the juges with a kokutsu transitory position and finish your kata with the same sequence of movements you started (Kenpo kata entrance)


...
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Never give up...

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#344548 - 03/07/09 08:22 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: LastSamurai]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Nick Cerio’s Kenpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3jiAYoWhvI

Original version of the forms start at:
3:00 - Pinan 1
3:37 - Pinan 2 (he makes a mistake and starts over)
3:48 - Pinan 2 (without mistake)
4:20 - Pinan 3
4:52 - Cat Form #1
5:28 - Circle of the Tiger
6:32 - Circle of the Leopard
7:35 - Blocking Form #3
8:22 - Cat Form #2
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#344549 - 03/14/09 09:06 PM Re: Circle of the Tiger [Re: Victor Smith]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Nice clip Victor. Then from there I found an interview with Nick Cerio. That was a good find too.

It is interesting to see how the katas evolve even over a single life time. Everything Cerio is recent. It doesn't take long for things to change.
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