Anyone ever heard this comment.

LOL, ok, now for a real answer:

Comments like that usually come when one does a pattern from rote memory as if marking of a checklist for each move.

Or possibly if some of the moves are uncomfortable because you have bad balance or lack of flexibility and do them "cautiously."

There are a bunch of other reasons (not understanding the bunkai (application) is a BIG one.


Now that I've elaborated on my answer, care to elaborate on your question?

Best,
Jim

I practice pattern using several methods :
slow and soft
slow and hard
fast and soft
fast and hard.

Fast and hard is how I would perform in a grading, every movement is fast and can appear ...jerky?

However, this doesnt mean I dont unerstand the pattern, in fact the opposite.
I was just curious if anyone else has had similar reasons for their pattern to be seen as 'robotic' from viewers.


(Although I feel that this post might end up being a waste of time)

Robotic can also imply stiff. You may be going slow and hard or fast and hard or whatever, but your movements may not be fluid. I tell my students this a lot, some peoplehave a hard time relaxing no matter how soft or slow they try. This could be a reason you heard the term "robotic"
I also tell students to never do kata fast. you can put all youve got into a kata and that does not mean it has to be fast. Go for smoothness and speed will come naturally later, but you should never purposely go fast.

Nobody said that _you_, personally don't understand the pattern. That is just one of MANY reasons why the performance could appear robotic.

You were curious if anyone had similar reasons for their pattern to be seen as robotic...

Similar to what? The 'jerky' appearance you mentioned?

Maybe that's it, like Chatan1979 said, fluidity is key.

Of course, I never hear it about my kata

What they're referring to is stiffness, sure, and it can also be timing. If your techniques come at set intervals, as if you're moving by a metronome, it can look robotic, too. You may want to quickly follow blocks with punches, but pause (while looking!!) before turning, for instance.

Have heard that said about others. In that specific instance, it alluded to 1) the missing of varying tempo within the kata subsets (which points to other things), and a 2)lack of fluidity/body dynamism/spring.

you do see this alot, robotic single movements (often performed very strong) in kata, I have and do suffer from it myself.

Its generally what happens when im under pressure to perform, or the camera comes out...........

exhibits -

http://media.putfile.com/Pinan-Sho--Kata

http://media.putfile.com/Pinan-Ni-Kata

The trick is to not perform, do the kata for yourself, make the kata work for you whilst keeping things as the kata shows (which my examples do not show me doing.......) LOL

I think big classes, part time practise and a general 'not a clue' attitude to kata is to blame (or internal tension, nerves etc etc),

of course some people call that modern karate, power to them but its not for me.

I would love to post a better video of my kata, but the truth is it looked like that on the day, its the study and practice that count, the lessons we learn from kata - the delivery system of the art of karate.

I dont seek 'perfection' these days, karate is far to practical an art for that, just progress and hard work.

Perhaps they meant "mechanical" as aptly illustrated by Shoshinkan in his two videos.

Hi Butterfly,

yes mechanical would be a good description of my Pinan, I see them as the delivery system of the mechanics of fundamental shorin ryu, well the long fist methods anyhow.

Of course I work them in different ways for myself, but my dojo is only just over a year old, so im getting alot of mechanical teaching/training going on.........

I shall inject a little flow and some of the timing i use for Bunkai and post a short video up to try and illistrate the difference.

I can put a realistic application to most movements within Kata. However, I can honestly say that I dont fully understand all movements and I dont think anybody truly does. That is why I tend to do kata hard with a jerky (i hate saying that) motion. e.g a down block, should be a nice flowing movement. I perform as almost two movements, arms coming to chest and then the actual block (alleged block). Its also been said that for a 32 move kata I do 64!
But thats just what I do. And knowing that there is far more to Kata than I will probably ever learn, I would rather perform hard movements and never need to use them instead of nice soft and flowing movements and find that they dont work when needed. But hey, we're all different and perhaps this should be expressed in pattern...or maybe not.

and Im convinced that a lot of the movements which arnt technically known as defense/attack moves, will one day become apparent as useful techniques. Hope so anyway or I may need to take out my white belt and start again!

of course your not wrong, its about what you have been instructed in and then to some extent what you find for yourself in kata that counts.

for example the basic down block, as I teach it to kyu grades really is a block ie a double bone block, really effective from a high boxers type position to stop, in its tracks and damage a lower rib hook/swing - a common method of assault if your hands start high.

moving on from that when you use the 'two handed' version you begin to see that as a deflection, leading to the 'block' being a strike/check, to the limb or another part of the body.

then the motion leads itself to being very useful as an arm brake, with the hikite now being used etc etc.

The classical kata hold a wealth of knowledge, only time in training with the right Sensei will ever show us 'some' of kata's true potential.

Im far from understanding the real bredth and depth of the classical positions in karate kata,

but every one (minus the salutations in some cases) does have a very valid combat application when worked right, well so far they do for me.