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#341061 - 05/14/07 12:13 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: MiSt]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Mist, he was comparing JUJUTSU and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, not Judo and BJJ.

-Taison out
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#341062 - 05/14/07 12:27 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I'd say having a foundation in one is better then not studying any thing.

Traditional Jujitsu can be a little like hard Aikido but they openly admit to striking. In that once the technique is applied U tap early or flow with it. TJJ does have ground and choking techniques but they don't stress them as much as BJJ. TJJ also have higher variety of locks, throws and principle of throwing. Like throwing a opponent and control him so he lands on the corner of of his body to break him.

BJJ is full resisitance and competitive base, it has a self defense base but its not as detailed as TJJ. BJJ does strike but thats 2nd to grappling. BJJ does practice throws but stress take downs. BJJ has intense groundwork (that requires building stamina) and goes into to details of groundwork at lower level of trainer then does the TJJ dojos. BJJ practice what works and what can be appiled in practice/dojo daily.

TJJ practice deadlier or effective street techniques and principles but these techniques can't be practice fully in the dojo.

If it was possible to study both at different times so that you had the practicality and endurnous of BJJ and deadly principle and application of TJJ you would have an awesome combination in my opinion.

I admit BJJ practice strikes to vitals but its 2nd to grappling and takedowns.

My 2 cent, if theres no BJJ school close practice TJJ until you can find one or move closer to a BJJ school. It would open your eyes to alot of possibilities.


Edited by Neko456 (05/14/07 12:31 PM)
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#341063 - 05/14/07 02:00 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: Neko456]
MiSt Offline
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Tasion I know. But he seemed to say that anything that trains alive is the same.
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"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#341064 - 05/14/07 06:02 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: MiSt]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Jkogas- Judo and BJJ are both trained alive, yet they look pretty different.




Not really when you think about it the way I am.

However I don't think thats really a valid point. The RULES structures are the only thing that makes a difference. Thus in my opinion, that difference is an artificial one. I have seen judo played EXACTLY like BJJ.

When I mention arts appearing the same, I'm NOT talking about rules limitations. I've talking about MOVEMENTS, literal, human physical motion. Not that this technique or that technique is or isn't allowed.

Just to clarify. Sure there can be some very minor differences. However again, if you allowed everything in judo that you didn't in BJJ, they would indeed appear exactly the same. Would it not?



-John

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#341065 - 05/14/07 11:41 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: MiSt]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
FYI, Judo and BJJ are practically twins. Both have the same throws and same grappling techniques. The difference? Different emphasis.

Judo wants to master 'throwing', while BJJ wants to master 'ground-work'.

The rules in Judo actually penalizes you if you try to play like a BJJ practitioner, and if you try to do Judo in BJJ competition, it'll mostly be futile since their mats are SOMETIMES, not always, so soft, throws wouldn't help much, hence the reason for quick takedowns instead of throws in BJJ.

It's the rules and emphasis. Same animal different usage.

If you want to be menacing, doing both judo and bjj would supplement beyond imagination. And you wouldn't feel lost when you are indeed cross-training in the two.

-Taison out
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#341066 - 05/15/07 02:05 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: Taison]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Sure Jkogas they CAN look the same, a foot sweep is a foot sweep. However don't tell me when you enter a Judo school during randori it looks the same as a BJJ one EVEN when they are both doing standup. For example a lot of the [censored] you do in BBJ is frowned upon (or at least not the norm) IE the closed guard (serious) double leg takdowns, some grips etc etc

Tyson, I remember their was a thread on the 'Judo guard' and to me this touched upon the REAL difference. How can you say they are the same animals when your average Judo guy doesnt know what a closed guard is (slight exageration at most).
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#341067 - 05/15/07 02:14 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: MiSt]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

How can you say they are the same animals when your average Judo guy doesnt know what a closed guard is (slight exageration at most).




I think it's more than an exageration, it's not true. At my judo club, everybody uses a closed guard when they need to. Indeed, last night we were drilling passes for the closed guard.


Edited by Supremor (05/15/07 02:15 PM)

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#341068 - 05/15/07 03:25 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: Supremor]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Ok, your actually right. But my point still remains, the guard emphasis is HUGELY different.
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#341069 - 05/15/07 11:27 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: MiSt]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Mist, you are just trying to compare Judo and BJJ in ground-work, which is a big big fallacy in your argument.

It's this simple, Judo-ka spend 70% of their time STANDING. BJJ practitioners spend the same amount of time ON THE GROUND.

The rules in Judo doesn't benefit, alas it penalizes you for going for too long on the ground, so judo-ka EMPHASIZES standing.

Closed guard? Well, ask a BJJ practitioner what a pistol grip is. Or any of the post WWII throws such as morote seoi-nage, the Makikomi family and the more recent throws. You'll see one stupified BJJ practitioner.

Vis a vis, BJJ practioners don't really need to know all the throws because they are comfortable ON THE GROUND, while Judo-ka don't really need to know all the ground-work because they are comfortable STANDING.

Ok, for example a BJJ practitioner is more prone to pull the guard, but a judo-ka is more prone to scramble himself up from the ground because it really isn't his comfort zone.

We're talking about the same art with different emphasis, it's like comparing 100 meter sprint with marathon. One you have to be fast, the other one you have to endure.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#341070 - 05/16/07 05:40 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: Taison]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
And as always, it depends largely on where you train. I am sure that some judo schools do almost no newaza, mine happens to do about 40-50%. I'm sure there are BJJ schools that do hardly any standing work, whereas others will put 40% of their time into drilling stand-up. You just can't generalise.

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