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#341051 - 05/12/07 06:45 PM Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu?
diseredato Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 30
Hello everyone,

After seeing some Royce Gracie videos of BJJ, I thought it would be a good art to learn. The groundwork looks very useful and could come in handy in a SD situations.

However, my problem is that there are no BJJ classes in my area, but they're are Jujutsu classes.

So my quesion is, how much do Jujutsu and BJJ have in common? I know BJJ is derived from Jujutsu, but how much do they have in common?

Thanks for any replies.

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#341052 - 05/12/07 11:35 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
How much do BJJ and Jujitsu have in common?

An armlock is an armlock isn't it? A choke is a choke? Right? Maybe..........

But the training methods often tend to be completely different. Brazilian jiu-jitsu emphasizes alive training and sparring using resistance. This doesn't occur at every jujutsu school.

If every school trained the same way, you would have virtually NO stylistic differences. Japanese jujutsu and Brazilian jiu-jitsu would look exactly alike. The same would be true of practically any other style as well.

Why? Because styles are bull$hit honestly. "Styles" truly only exist in the minds of the practitioners. Sure, there are different training methods, but they aren't all that different from each other really. You basically have two schools of thought:

1. Schools that do little sparring, spend a lot of time on forms, line drills, board breaking, etc. Training may or may not be all that athletic. Sweating may occur, though it isn't guaranteed.

2. Schools that spar and drill alive, have partners providing real resistance every step of the way (progressively of course and with variable intensity). They spend NO time doing forms or any sort of drill that doesn't involve a partner. Sweat happens. Training is ALWAYS athletic. These people live on advil.

Again, IMO, if everyone trained the same way (alive), this notion of martial arts styles would be an non-factor. It wouldn't even be a discussion. But people don't. They typically take one of the two mentioned approaches above.

If they take the first route, the training can be remarkably the same when looked at from a more distant perspective. Like I said, forms are common. Unalive (dead) training is common. Two-man drills with little in the way of motion, timing and resistance is common. Thus all the "styles" that fit into first category are practically the same with only a few details being the difference.

Likewise, schools which take the second route practically end up looking the same as well. Aliveness being what it is, makes this so. You'll find that many techniques you thought you could make work, don't work now when your partners resist your efforts and attempt to do the same things back to you.

People taking the second route use all ranges. They will kick, punch, clinch and grapple on the ground. Regardless of "style". And ultimately it all looks the same.

Someone once posted a clip of Hapkido guys rolling. It "looked" just like BJJ. Thus is there really any difference in the two? Not when trained alive there isn't. But the minute that the aliveness goes away, people tend to get pretty "creative".......

And that isn't always a good thing.

Now many folks in the first category will often say they teach kicking, punching, clinching and ground grappling like the folks in category two. And in fact they MIGHT.

But you'll see a TREMENDOUS difference in the way it looks between the schools of the different approaches. And THAT is the problem.

I've been in traditional Japanese jujutsu and aikijujutsu schools. What I've seen has left me speechless, and not in a GOOD way. Dead training methods were the norm.

I live on the East coast of the USA. But I have heard the same things from people across this country and from guys around the world; that many of those classes they have observed are exactly the same as what I have discovered. So it isn't just something unique to MY experience or, "neck of the woods". Dead training happens, just the same way $hit does.

So again, the differences in technique are often slight but the methods of training are like night and day. And it's the METHOD that matters more than anything.

Hope this makes some sense. I spent four hours training in the gym today and I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow I'll look at this and think, wtf did I just say?


Cheers

-John

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#341053 - 05/13/07 12:10 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: JKogas]
diseredato Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 30
Ya thanks, that really helped me. But just to be sure I understood, Jujutsu uses forms and no sparring, and BJJ you spar and have active resisting partners to practice the techniques on. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I understood from your post.

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#341054 - 05/13/07 12:19 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
This sort of thing completely depends on any specific school. You'll have to check them out yourself individually to judge them.



-John

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#341055 - 05/13/07 08:07 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Depends entirely on school.

I know a BJJ school who's crappy sparring wouldn't make you sweat, and I know jujutsu schools that will have you begging for a break.

Depends entirely on the school. And it's upto you if you want to join an 'alive' school or a 'dead' school.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#341056 - 05/13/07 09:14 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Depends entirely on the school. And it's upto you if you want to join an 'alive' school or a 'dead' school.






Certainly! I suppose it is. Its true that some folks don't like to work. Some are lazy and enjoy being spoon-fed. Others have fragile egos which would prevent them from sparring and thus discovering truly what it is that they can and cannot "do" against a resisting opponent. Some folks want to believe they are "dangerous" mofos without actually having to do the work to become so. Some folks simply care about the "art" and don't have a problem being unable to apply anything that they've spent time learning.

So yes, dead or alive is all good and completely up to the individual.


-John

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#341057 - 05/13/07 09:28 AM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Do you have a link for the school in question? That might help us help you a bit more!

Some Ju Jitsu schools also do weapons work too. But as Taison and John have already said, it really depends on the school.

As I said, if you have a link to the school, or even the orginization, that would be helpful.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#341058 - 05/13/07 01:21 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I have to be honest, I don't really see the point in doing 'dead' training. If it doesn't work against a guy in the dojo, what's the reason it would in the streets?

Just my complete, utter, unadultered opinion.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#341059 - 05/13/07 04:23 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: diseredato]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Two different animals. If you are "looking for" BJJ, you may very well find Traditional JJ not to your liking. Vice versa as well of course.

Neither is for everyone. The focuses are different and as a predictable result, the results are as well.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#341060 - 05/14/07 12:03 PM Re: Differences between BJJ and Jujutsu? [Re: JKogas]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Jkogas- Judo and BJJ are both trained alive, yet they look pretty different. (Good post tho but just trying to make a point)

diseredato imo you have to look at the context the 'aliveness' is trained in, the rules. For example because of Judo's rules people tend to fight differently on the ground than BJJ folk.

But I do think they share one thing in common, they have real attributes. whether that be a good guard game or a good foot sweep, but then again they are good at using w/e it is in a particular context, but I suppose the context of whether your oppo is resisting or not is the biggest one of all :-)
_________________________
"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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