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#340758 - 05/29/07 07:17 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
''While I see now that your entire argument was meant to demonstrate why NHB fighters often kick as if they were swinging a bat.''


What?

The dreaded forum case of ''where the hell did you get that from''...maybe im poor at saying what i mean.I dont know.

My points were about why the side kick is not used in NHB.
Most were making out its lack of skill.I was putting forward that its possibly not,its becuase they tacticaly and technicaly dont fit and no one wants to learn to do them because of that.

The round kicks were mentioned,I cant remember how.But you cant do them that way becuase you end up buggered for everything else...speawling,shooting,tie ups.....whatever.
It is so so simple and,to me,obviouse.

If you fight in a position to do TKD kicks..you cannot do the other things needed to survive in NHB well enough.
If you fight in a way to deal with everything...you can now not do TKD kicks,...its pysicaly impossible...it would be slower and less powerfull.It would make everything the TKD kicks are meant to be ,totaly void because you out of place to do them.

How the hell do you chamber TKD kicks now that your in another stance ..not against a six year old...against the best in the world.

If you actualy do some NHB there is no other conlusion for it to come to.

Yea..do these kicks...but what next...what positions will your body be in straight after?..........vunerable.,,thats if while doing them you were not destroyed.
AND to stand in the start position to be able to do them means your side on like a TKD guy.....NO WAY is anyone going to be like at the top...because..for the 1 00000000000 time....you cannot do all the other stuff you need to do in NHB well enough to survive at the top.

I can just see it...'' How will I beat Fedor?I know....side kicks''.

Go and try it...find the best wrestler ,better still an NHB guy ,you can find.He has to get you to a position of ground and pound and you can only kick in your TKD stance.Id put money on the out come.

Your right...everyone does kick differently.In a fight anything happens...its just...''kick them''..''not how do I kick them''.So what ever background anyone has will come out inthe kick..one time it might be chambered..another time not..they dont bloody know..they just kick.Its not untill analyzing footage that you see what they did.Then you might see TKD...from someone who trained in it and it shows its head
Most take from Muay Thai as it tactucaly and technicaly fits better.there isnt even a TKD low kick!
Non of them are going to scrap it all and go and learn the TKD kicks mentioned.

If you disagree fine...I think your blinded by wanting them to work so much that you must find a way,even if it means making up the points im trying to make as being something else.

For them to work,they have to be adapted.


Edited by matxtx (05/29/07 07:28 PM)
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#340759 - 05/29/07 10:27 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Matxtx

You sound a little heated in your post, whyI don't know. I personally have not engaged you in some kind of argument or debate. The last few posts I have written were trying to understand your point of view.

I have read your posts, and frankly I'm still a bit confused, but by the way your sounding it seems best that I do not ask anymore questions.

I spar in a boxers stance, even when I did Olympic style TKD sparring I always sparred in a boxers stance. I a fairly good with TKD kicks including the fancy jumping spinning kicks. There are certain kicks that I have learned which are coupled with footwork that I have found extremely valuable simply because these are not found in other styles. They may not be exclusive to TKD but rarely you see anyone practice using or countering them.

In NHB you see many fighters both strikers and grapplers take boxers stance, I don't see why they could not make the kicks I suggested work. After all these kicks I brought up are already being used, just not frequently or by many of the fighters...but still there are fighters that use them. Mike Swick, Anderson Silve, George St. Peiere, Chuck Liddel, and Ivan Salverry I have seen use these kicks. And all but Liddel stands in a boxers stands, he stands more squared off ready to sprawl. But the rest stand primarily in boxers stance. That was what I was trying to say.

Listen I don't know if you understand me or not, perhaps your right, maybe I am trying to hard to see something that just isn't there. Perhaps I'm trying to be an incorporate the training I have done for the last decade so that it is more functional.

I've been trying to start new conversations, but all Ikeepo getting from you is "it can't be done" type of posts, so please just ignore my post and perhaps someone with a fresh perspective might have the guts to post from a different point of view, no matter how they feel whether the kicks will work or not, but the important thing is that they come from a different perspective that way we can all learn.

I'm not trying to argue with you nor anger you. And I have given up trying to persuade of my point. We see different things.
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#340760 - 05/30/07 08:08 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Quote:

there isnt even a TKD low kick!




sorry matxtx but isn't a TKD low kick just any kick done at low level?

I've seen them done (although, admittedly, not in NHB).
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#340761 - 05/30/07 10:33 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: trevek]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
You've never seen a low roundhouse kick done in NHB? It's the most used kick. And yes TKD has low kicks, however, what they don't have is shin kicks. I have yet to find a source that includes shin kicks. Although if you watch beginners kick. They often kick target shields with their shins, because they fear kicking with their foot. I myself had an issue with it, especially when I first learned how to kick a chest protector, back then they hard these hard Adidas hogus. The outside was hardshell and really stung when my bear instep hit it.

I said it before and I say it again, if you can kick high, you can kick low. Although this does not include shin kicks, cause that requires shin development.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
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master" - Leonardo Da
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#340762 - 05/30/07 11:14 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Its ok,im calm im cool haha.
Ask away.
Its just frustrating im interpreted as saying one thing when Im not.Oh well.

The guys you mentioned I looked at on youtube and non are in a traditional boxers stance.They are in an interpretation of one that is more square and spread out.Well...a stance isnt fixed so it changes,but to my eyes in the main they are like that.It may be subtle for some to see..though its there.
I also never saw one do a WTF type round kick, knee chambered up in front.They were all variations on MT type kicks or maybe older style arcing kicks.I dont know their background so..
I saw one do a side kick to the leg..though it was too ineffective to want to be able to say'' train those'' to someone wanting to be the best in NHB.
I saw some backicks...they were not too bad actualy.Not enough for me to want to try them as a main tactic where I train though.
Ill keep them for TKD.

I am still learning myself so I could be wrong.Hey..id like to be,it would mean being able to use all my TKD. Coming from TKD and into NHB this is what im picking up and learning by trying and from others who have tried.


Edited by matxtx (05/30/07 11:39 AM)
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#340763 - 05/30/07 11:24 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: trevek]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Low rounds kicks require different body mechanics to do them most effectively and powerfully,like you would need to do against the best in the world or in a real situation, so in that sense I meant TKD has no round kick.

Just doing a TKD kick but lower is not good ENOUGH.Tacticaly or mechanicaly
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#340764 - 05/30/07 01:07 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I just thought I would throw this in here as this discussion is TKD and MMA fighting. This is my TKD and there is no lack of TKD during training and fighting, but as I eluded to earlier, you use what you need at the time. If it calls for kicking then it will be used, just like ground work or clinching. I think that TKD will make its way more and more into MMA but we just won't recognize it as TKD, it will just be fighting.

Fort trio ready for a big fight at MFC 12
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#340765 - 05/30/07 01:22 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: Dereck]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Maybe TAGB does too much semi-contact these days. Mark Weir was a TKD world champion (under TAGB, I believe). maybe watch him and see what he does.

Incidentally, a WTF roundhouse is different from a Chang Hon one. High Kukki stances are closer to boxing stances than CH stances. That being said, I'm surprised TAGB don't use more boxing style stances for competition. Eclecticism has always been a forte of theirs.

Tek, I was joking (although I don't actually watch that much MMA/NHB)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#340766 - 05/30/07 01:53 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: trevek]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
How much of the alleged problem is that Chang Hon stylists generally stand more side on than MT stylists, therefore the MT kick is more designed for delivery from a face-on stance?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#340767 - 05/30/07 01:59 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Dereck,

Perhaps I should have titled the thread "NHB lacks kicks" I made the assumption that everyone would understand this, after all the only difference between TKD and all other forms of karate are basically the slightly greater emphasis that TKD places on kicking techniques.

Sure in no way do kicks fall under TKD, but I just thought since TKD emphasizes kicks, and since TKD is known for having a multitude of kicks, this would be the appropriate forum.

For example to me, I do not see the differences many thai fighters execute there round house compared to tkd roundhouse. The only difference is that they make contact with the shin and not always the case.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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