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#340768 - 05/30/07 02:34 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
This is a good explanation of a MT low kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQeXHXkL6ow

Different from TKD kicks or other styles kicks.

I have nothing against roundkicks in NHB,they work they are proven.TKD kicks have to be adapted to it though.WTF ones,because the knees chambered in front,would need a lot of adaption.The Chang Hon style one less so.

Its ALL about the start position.
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#340769 - 05/30/07 10:31 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
NO different than how I teach my students to kick low...even regular kicks are done that way...

There comes a point in time when you become comfortable with techniques to adapt them to your particular style, the way your body moves. This is the point when you no longer need to abide word for word with what your instructor taught you about the technique, your now making it your own.

Some people never think outside the box, they don't listen to their bodies when it tells you something feels ackward or something isn't right. These are the students who will attempt to execute a low round kick as if you were kicking the solar plexus or face.

It is natural that when you kick low, you no longer chamber upwards, however thee is still a chamber, instead of lifting the knee upwards you simply bend the knee back. This is something you discover on your own, unless your still a beginner. A MT, kick boxing and WTF TKD kick is all the same. The only difference is the striking tool, in TKD I have yet to find a reference to shin kicks.

The only time you get kick boxers that do not kick their round houses like TKD is when they come from a different martial arts background, for instance the Chong hon style has that wide trajectory kick (similar to a bat swing), which often is used by grappler's in NHB. However check out MT, kick boxers and they kick round kicks just like WTF TKD.

That video proved nothing...

Kick through your target...
Turn your entire body...
Kick with your whole body...

This is something everyone in TKD does, if not then your doing it wrong. The only difference between thai kicks and TKD is the use of the shin.

And one more time, truthfully if your a TKD student and your adept level which is around black belt, then you should basically be able to know you must adjust your kick in order to kick low, it's like the higher you kick the more you telegraph, because the target is further away, it's as basic as understanding that you must pivot your feet when you rotate your hip.
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#340770 - 05/31/07 04:54 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
gotta agree. The clip was good but I saw little which I wasn't aware of from TKD.

The fuss about the step was strange to me because I'd automatically twist my foot or step if I was doing any other kick than front kick. The twisting of the foot starts the body motion which is furthered with the hip action (the body should drop the same way he describes) and the motion carries on up the leg and is released through the snapping action or by complete follow-through.

Even the whole thing about keeping the hands out is shown in CH patterns as you are supposed to extend the same arm as the kicking foot. The position of the lead hand and the reaction hand can be used for pulling the opponent.

I think the only real difference is the striking area, but many TKD folk use the instep over the ball anyway. Making it the shin is no big compromise except for two points:

1) better make sure they're conditioned
2) I'd suggest there is less power with the snapping kick the further up the leg (or wider area) than with the follow through kick (more commonly used in WTF).
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#340771 - 05/31/07 02:35 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: srvblues]
srvblues Offline
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Argentina
Quote:

This is Steven Elliot (ITF TKD) in Cage Rage Contenders 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFYLA-SX_s




Nobody saw this video???????

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#340772 - 05/31/07 04:09 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: TeK9]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
You said this Tek'

''I said it before and I say it again, if you can kick high, you can kick low''

Which to me reads like ''kick the same way high as you do low''

So I posted that to show that is not true.


Then this

''And one more time, truthfully if your a TKD student and your adept level which is around black belt, then you should basically be able to know you must adjust your kick in order to kick low, it's like the higher you kick the more you telegraph, because the target is further away, it's as basic as understanding that you must pivot your feet when you rotate your hip''

Yes I am competant thank you ver much.

What you have just said I have basicaly been trying to say about NHB.You must adjust your kick for NHB...of course you have to be adept at NHB to know that!

MT are not like TKD kicks.I am just crazy for saying that.Someone tell me please?
The WTF kick is knee chambered in front.The snap of the knee and the re-chamber back to the knee in front position ,puts a break on the full body motion of the kick.Yes,hip nd a foot swivel is involved but its not FULL body into it,its impossible.Study kinematics and find out.Why do you think MT guys spin if they miss or when shadow boxing?....TKD guys dont spin.They rechamber,which acts as a break.
I call your bluff and say your talking tosh that you knew how to do that.
There are similarities and also similarities in theory.Training and actualy doing are different.

I am not for one secomd take seriously that someone who does TKD kicks can just so easily go to MT without physical training in the switching.To say..''oh I can do TKD kicks so I can do MT is tosh.It would make it easier but to be proficient and to use in a fight having never done t hem...then no.Well maybe its just inept old me.haha.
It wasnt meant to get into stuff like this lol.

Im not sure I can take you guys seriously after posts like that.

Im mean ,if I said I can do MT and withough training I can do WTF or TKD kicks,there would be so many posts saying''No way, get competant instruction''.
Have I suddenly gone to mars haha.

When I just did TKD I also tried to figure out how to kick low well...how to box well...how to clinch and grapple.I missed so many subtle things It would of taken ages to figure out.
If you guys can work it out so well,not theory,actualy doing,,you should be hall of famers.I bow



Edited by matxtx (05/31/07 04:40 PM)

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#340773 - 05/31/07 04:59 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Lets get it back on track.
Its about NHB and TKD kicks.
Not TKD verses MT.
Its turning into a joke.
It would seem wiser to discuss how to go about adapting them for NHB.
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#340774 - 05/31/07 06:14 PM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
matxtx, sorry you don't feel you can take us seriously. Although I'm not a WTF stylist I have trained with clubs in UK, Germany, Finland, Poland and Macedonia and have seen follow through kicks which resemble (not exactly) the MT style 'follow-through' where the kicker needs to spin.

My limited experience of MT roundhouses tells me they are very different, especially at a high body level, but I repeat, there was little in that clip (good as it was) which explained the radical difference between that style of kick shown and some of the TKD kicks I have come across and which you are so intent on proving.

After over 15 years training in a number of clubs, associations and countries I think I might have something to show for it (even if I am not that great a fighter).

My question about stance was something you haven't answered completely. I know people who would try to throw a turning kick without turning their heel and try to throw it straight ahead.

This was never a TKD vs MT discussion. If we adapt a TKD kick is it still a TKD kick?


Edited by trevek (05/31/07 06:15 PM)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#340775 - 06/01/07 04:27 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: trevek]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
rereading your post has p**sed me off a bit. You go on about retracting and rechambering when that video clip also shows how to retract after a kick. If you want to talk about adapting then you've answered your own question... don't damn well retract... follow through. WOW! 5000 years and we've solved the problem.

'not the whole body'? Try standing and turning your foot 150 degrees. Then lift your other leg. Your body automatically spins because the muscles are now twisted to make it so. add to that some hip motion or shoulder motion and tell me how you are not using your whole body? I think you are mixing up the notion of the source of power and motion and the amount of the body use with momentum.

who'd the TKD guy here? Oh, can't be the one doing the axe kicks cos he does low kicks too. Must be an MT guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgb0yJe2v4s&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgb0yJe2v4s&mode=related&search=
not the greatest film but there's a couple of low kicks... or maybe he does MT as well?

same guy with a killer kick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49z_wz6JZYE&mode=related&search=

granted, didn't work this time tho'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9HWuX4BiRM&mode=related&search=

check out at about 1.30 and tell us what kind of kick that is... and what stance is he in? This was an MMA competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX_mywq4yN0&mode=related&search=
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#340776 - 06/01/07 07:16 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: trevek]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Whats the question about the stance please?
I must of missed it.

Is still a TKD kick if its adapted?
Maybe or maybe its an NHB kick now.
Which means that it wont be spotted as a TKD kick ,which is why you wont see the TKD kicks in NHB, which was the point of the thread and my point to begin.


Edited by matxtx (06/01/07 07:24 AM)

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#340777 - 06/01/07 08:01 AM Re: NHB lacks TKD [Re: matxtx]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
it's the post before you posted the video.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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