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#339527 - 05/05/07 11:42 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Ronin1966]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Yes, I realize being mature and intelligent is not unique to ninja, but it is an attribute, and since I love ninjitsu, I figured I might as weel point it out.

The whole weak make the strong stand out...that was simply stating that without their weakness, you would simply another average Joe. If others want to become strong, that is wonderful. But I'm saying don't pick a fight with the weak simply because you can.

The whole "romantic notion", blah!!! I believe in some ethereal presense that inhabits a warrior, I meant it as the natural tendency for a warrior to want to better himself, not have awards, trophies, etc handed to him. Warriors EXPECT hardship. And the whole sheriff thing, I don't go around fixing everyone's problems...I'm not sure why you thought I did. How would they learn to cope themselves? I just assist when they are not capable. Most of the time it is just offering some advice, or finding out some secret that a friend desperatly needs to be aware of. Most of the time I use my physical abilities to assist people. Example: Due to my training in scalig building, ropes, etc, I excel in my rock climbng gym class. I use my knowledge of efficient climbing to teach others to accomplish feas that they believe themselves incapable of doing. I also have a small reputation for being a good martial artist, so when I choose to stand up for soemthing or someone, most people back off. I have entered many conflicts, (I think about four this year) and only once did anyone resort to physical force. (Someone tried to punched my face, I evaded it, laughed, and they chickened out.) All I do is lend support an/or strength to others...solveing everyone else's problems is a waste of time and energy...and is quite foolish.

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#339528 - 05/05/07 11:48 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

The are not contradicting, you can dislike something, but still not harass it. I hate Harry Potter books, but you don't see me burning them.




Nope what you said is that you value the weakness of the majority, as it enhances your strength as percieved by both yourself and others. That is ego, and also very arrogant. Projecting weakness onto someone based on their inability to perform specific tasks (fighting, rock climbing etc). Rather you should look for thge strengths that those people do possess, and learn from them.

You are a teenager, and it is only understandable that you face the world with confidence and ideals. Experience will teach you that there is no glory in a superiority complex.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#339529 - 05/05/07 05:46 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
shorin-ji Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 146
Loc: victoria, b.c, canada
Quote:

Quote:

The are not contradicting, you can dislike something, but still not harass it. I hate Harry Potter books, but you don't see me burning them.




Nope what you said is that you value the weakness of the majority, as it enhances your strength as percieved by both yourself and others. That is ego, and also very arrogant. Projecting weakness onto someone based on their inability to perform specific tasks (fighting, rock climbing etc). Rather you should look for thge strengths that those people do possess, and learn from them.

You are a teenager, and it is only understandable that you face the world with confidence and ideals. Experience will teach you that there is no glory in a superiority complex.



well put. that superiority complex will end up getting you im some real bad trouble. any experienced fighter would take you as more of a joke then anything. no offence but someone here has to tell you...
you are taking this whole ninja thing too literally, i have read things like "the book of five rings","hagakure" and "the art of war" which are texts written by some of the greatist warriors of all time and they all are not to be taken literally but have to be some what translated into modern concepts. one of the reasons why i havent been bullied in a real long time is because i show confidance but not over confidance because over confidance shows weakness. ive seen way too many people get laid out by dangerous people because they thing that they are the big hero because of doing a bit of M.A or in your case very little M,A. I think that with this attitude your gunna get in a very bad situation and your grappling hook and ski mask arnt going to help you.

heres something that i had to add as well, it talks about the altimate power of ninjas realultimatepower
"I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window."
- you didnt perhaps write this did you?

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#339530 - 05/06/07 07:53 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: shorin-ji]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Woah, a little harsh Cord and Shorin-ji, let's try to keep things civil having said that, I do broadly agree with Cord's conclusions.

Quote:


For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.




Why? You don't live in the past, why not be a ninja of the present?

Quote:


1.) Ninja as intellectuals. Ninja think before they act, weighing the consequences, and staying one step ahead




If most (intelligent) people do this, why point out ninjas in particular?

Quote:

Strength is useless without weakness.




Why? Can't I be strong enough to lift a rock, without someone necessarily having to be weak?

Quote:

The soul of a warrior. Too many people today have a weak soul.




What's a soul, and how do I find it? What's a warrior?

Quote:

it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak




Why?

Quote:

Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.




Why shouldn't they?


Conclusion: Let's do some philosophy reading and define some terms
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#339531 - 05/06/07 09:01 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TimBlack]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Why? You don't live in the past, why not be a ninja of the present?


Because in the past they didn't have guns that could mow down a whole regiment of ninjas in a matter of seconds.

Quote:

If most (intelligent) people do this, why point out ninjas in particular?


Because it's just something obvious, to make it more interesting just add a label to it as well and make it "new and improved". Now how can something be both 'new' and 'improved'?

Quote:

Strength is useless without weakness.


Disagreed here. I can be as strong as I want and that strength isn't affected by the 'random joe' on the street. Just because I'm able to lift heavy weights doesn't mean I need a weak guy to be able to lift it.

Quote:

The soul of a warrior. Too many people today have a weak soul.


Define the soul of a warrior.

Quote:

it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak


If they are pretty, young, innocent, still in college/high school then you can count on me. Anything except that, it's none of my business.

Quote:

Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.


What? It's a crime?

Quote:

For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.



Which like Cord said; Which isn't long at all.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339532 - 05/06/07 09:02 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: shorin-ji]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Allow me to yet again explain, since I would hate to leave you all thinking I'm an jerk

I said I don't like weakness, and it's true. I don't. I do not project weakness on to the other kids in gym class simply because they can't do what I can. IN fact, their weakness comes from saying such statements as "Oh, I could never do that", "there is NO WAY I could do that.) I spend more time in each class encouraging kids. I've already gotten three students who full heartedly beleived themselves incapable of climbing two ropes simultaneously (one in each hand) to at least attempt it, and they succeeded. My goal is to bring out the strength people don't realize they possess.

And the whole "weak make the strong stand out....never harass them," take a moment to think about the kind of people this would apply to. Some how I doubt you and I go around curb stomping the helpless. (At least I pray we all don't.) This statement applies to the jerk-offs who WOULD do this kind of thing, because to them standing out is all they care about. It's meant to give these meatheads a reason they would understand. Somehow I doubt you can approach a 250lb thug named "Ted" and tell him that he shouldn't pick on the weak because it shows bad character. (And lacking the power of the Jedi, I don't think overpowering his mind is goning to work.) I personally don't care about standing out, the only reason I even bother to push myself in that gym class is purely for fun. I don't really read those texts, (Hagakure, Books of five rings, art of war, etc) because to me they are one: expensive, and two I don't see how they apply to me. I only said this stuff because it is just one way of thinking. Their are numerous ways to think, and mentioning them all might give me carpal tunnel syndrome.

No, I didn't write the "Realultimatepower" thing, that was some guy who's last name is Hamburger...first name I can't remember. I'm pretty sure any level headed person realizes that he created that site for entertainment. The only people how I know who believe all that made up bs about ninja is a Narutard.


I'm not overconfident, I still get shaky when I even have to say a speech in front of a class. I WISH I had more confidence, especially in combat, and in relationships, but that is sometihing that I will develope (hopefully )in time. I admit that many times I am scared to death. The difference between me and the weak is not always about physical attributes. While two people may have a fear of public speak, the one who gets up in front of his peers and bravely gives his speech is the strong one.

Did I mention I suck at explaining myself? I can't write for S***. (My English grade is my personal shame...)

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#339533 - 05/06/07 09:27 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
WOW...that's a lot of questions to answer.

Okay let me give you may take on the subject. (Are all the qoutes you used mine?)

(Strength is useless without weakness.)- I agree, your own personal stength is not affected by someone else in terms of what YOU can do. But if everyone was just as strong as you were, then the widely excepted definition of "strong" would have to be moved up. It's like if was night all 24 hours. Things would change, and darkness would no longer seem as dark. If we all become strong, then to call ourselves strong, we must yet again advance furtehr. (Does this make sense?)

(Soul of the Warrior.)--Hmmm, how to describe it. I would say personaly for ME, it's the mindset that I must push myself to conquer my own faults, and take on new challenges. It also means the knowledge of knowing why one fights, and why fighting is the last resort, not the first. I realize many people foreign to MA do this too, but Warriors from all regions fo the globe (especially Asia) are typiclly models for this type of behavior. It's really nothing special, I was just saying that to many people (mostly kids in my view) don't possess the drive to better themselves, they expect things to be handed to them. That bugs me.

(it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak)--I like the part you said about pretty, young...but I would help others too. It is kind of selfish to only care about a small group that you particually approve of. I was once a very timid and weak ,I know what it is to be helpless in situations, so when I see someone else in those situations, I try to lend a hand. I like to help others because to me it just seems natural. What is the point of being strong if you have nothing to aplly it to. I don't care about how many bricks you can break, or how fast you cn punch, I care about how someone puts their abilities to positive, non-violent use.

(Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.(--We did a little experiment in my pyschology class, were everyone anonynously wrote down how much extra credit they wanted (either 5 or 15 points), with the stipulation being if more than four kids said 15 EVERYONE would get nothing, but ifis less than 3 did, then those who said 15 would recieve 15. So the idea was to vote for five, so there is a 100% chance of reward, and everyone gets it. BUT NO!!! EVERYONE ACTED SELFISHLY, THINKING THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH BEING GREEDY. BECAUSE THESE SELFISH KIDS CARED ONLY ABOUT SELF ADVANCEMENT, THE WHOLE CLASS SUFFERED. And the artificial standards? I don't see why people care about the designer clothes you wear, or the group of friends you have. Clothes cover our naked bodies, and friends are friends. I for one do not see the value in leting someone else say that you "fit in" or are "successful" simply because of your social position or the things you have, or whatever.

(I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.)---True, I have been on a journey, and I fully admit it hasn't gone on for long. Sorry, can't change the fact that I lack years compared to you. I have repeatedly stated I don't claim to be any master of anything, but for me, my journey HAS been a long time in my view, because I has been on it for the majority of my life. I am actually happy to say that I have not been around long, because thi means i still have a huge amount of life left to continue. I look forward to this with great joy.

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#339534 - 05/06/07 10:56 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
I am also a teenager, and am also training in Bujikan, as well as mixing in other schools of thought. I can see how many of you views may make sense, but I prefer to not get involved with other people. I pursuit strength simply to better myself. If others wish to follow my path, that is a beautiful thing, but I make no accustaions if they don't. Im close to 19, and I can say that while I too seem to have been training for a long time, I don't expect anyone to congradulate my endeavour. I'm happy acknowledging to myself that I am strong. Everyone else is just that: EVERYONE ELSE. I like the concepts of Ninpo, and I feel a calm dignity in having pursued my own path. I have taken ideas from Hatsumi, but I have also incorporated my own beliefs, because in the end, if you choose to believe what someone else believes...it's not your own.

I like what Mr. Cord is saying. I am not saying that I am a superior "ninja-teen", but I think in terms of maturity and discipline, I am worlds beyond. Hopefully you will realize that the way of the ninja is not about strength alone.

The whole "The strong stand out because of weak people" thing...in theory your analogy makes sense, but who cares? So be it if I am able to toss shuriken, or a frisbee, or pocket change into someone's face before raining a whole keg's worth of blows to vital spots. To me, these abilities are more about my passion for tradition ninja training. In real life, I use what I have learned through Bujikan, trial and error, and research to COMPLIMENT my self defense. Today's society is ill-suited for the stereotypical ninja, but a massive amount of their abilites and logic can still be applied. Call me what you will, but I think a REAL ninja would be someone who understands that the term "Ninja" is more of a loose concept of a way combat and life, not a concrete thing.
_________________________
What is more perfect than a breeze on a warm day in spring? The love of a beautiful woman.

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#339535 - 05/06/07 12:55 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Somehow I doubt you can approach a 250lb thug named "Ted" and tell him that he shouldn't pick on the weak because it shows bad character.


Why wouldn't I be able to?

Quote:

But if everyone was just as strong as you were, then the widely excepted definition of "strong" would have to be moved up.


That's called advancing or progressing. Has nothing to do with "Strength without weakness" thing you were trying to explain. I'll explain in a moment.

Quote:

the mindset that I must push myself to conquer my own faults, and take on new challenges.


hmm I'd rather call it the "satisfactory-drive" based loosely on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I think you're in the third stage.

Quote:

It is kind of selfish to only care about a small group that you particually approve of.


Yet again, where I am, you stick your nose into other people businesses you might end up stabbed or shot.

Quote:

What is the point of being strong if you have nothing to aplly it to.


Keeping yourself alive if negotiation fails, not trying to get yourself hurt.

About your psychology class. It's part of Darwin's theory. Some people will need to step on other people to advance. If you can't really accept it, just let it go and become a hermit in the mountain or something. I for one would no doubt gladly step on some innocent person or persons in order to get a future for my family especially my kids, and if I'm wrong, then I'll gladly burn in the nine hells.


Quote:

And the artificial standards? I don't see why people care about the designer clothes you wear, or the group of friends you have. Clothes cover our naked bodies, and friends are friends.


Since you're still in your younger years your world is a bit different from the socio-economic world most people face when they graduate from college and start working.

I'll give an example. Using myself (which I hate). I work as a translator but sometimes, I'm a guide. I am, however, starting to work in the field of transportation and freight, which will require that I communicate with a lot of people in higher social and economic positions.

Now in your teen years, it might be ok to be a loner or staying away from 'popular kids', but later you'll see that being friends with some rich entrepreneurs will help a lot with surviving in this world in terms of monetary and financial survival even if you hate their guts and have to act like they're the best thing since Darth Vader.

Basically what I'm saying, right now you shouldn't worry about the people you know, but when you're graduating you should've by now gotten some names and established some connections because that's what the world is all about. Connections with people who can take you somewhere in this world. In my world, you dress like 'average joe' you won't impress people. If you wear armani, versace or louis vuitton, people are impressed and more prone to do business with you because they know you are SOMEONE not just SOMEBODY.

Quote:

Sorry, can't change the fact that I lack years compared to you.


Don't compare yourself to others, only compare yourself with yourself in the past. That's what it is to be stronger. Stronger than yourself, that's where you got the wrong foot in the beginning. Comparing yourself to other people won't get you far.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339536 - 05/06/07 01:16 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
I agree with Taison, what is the point of getting involved in other people's business. If you always rush to the aid of these so called "weak" people...then how will they ever get stronger? You rob them of their time to shine.


And Taison is yet again correct in saying that steping on people, and carring about the "in-crowd" ios acceptible in certain circumstances. You need to stop being so naive and become a true ninja. It's called playing the agme; ninja do it very well. So get over yourself.


I'm beginning to think Mr. Taison is quite smart, maybe you should listen to him more...or listen to me, heck listen to both, I think it would straighten you out quite a bit.
_________________________
What is more perfect than a breeze on a warm day in spring? The love of a beautiful woman.

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