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#339517 - 05/04/07 10:23 PM The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world.
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Please, trolls stay away!!!!

What does it mean to follow the Shinobi path as a teenager?

For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past. I admit my admiration borderlines on obsession sometimes. And in my constant training (I train too much sometimes...need to take a vacation, lol) I have found that while Ninjutsu does not always apply to daily life, even a teen can find a use for it. As I continued my training, I came across these concepts that I use in my life to guide me.

1.) Ninja as intellectuals. Ninja think before they act, weighing the consequences, and staying one step ahead. Too many teens are criticized these days for being "impatient" and "living only for today, not tomorrow." As a student of Ninjutsu, I have realized the subtle beauty in patience, and the power of planning ahead.

2.) Strength is useless without weakness. This is my favorite saying. To explain it, think about any two extremes...hot and cold, beauty and ugliness...if one did not exist, the other would seen like normalcy. What is the point of being strong if everyone is strong? Then you are only average. What I'm trying to say is it is good to be strong, but NEVER harass the weak, because THEY are what helps you stand out.

3.) The soul of a warrior. Too many people today have a weak soul. Not in the sense of being anti-religious, or evil...I mean they seem fragile, and self-serving. When I see someone in need, I apply the strength of the ninja to assist that person; it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak. Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards. And people have all but lost the warrior's spirit. Not to bash sports toady (I enjoy sports) but I hated how the child leagues would sugar-coat a loss, and give EVERYONE trophies. If you lose, that defeat should spur you to become strong, and win. And not everyone can win all the time...this holds true in nature; there will always be a loser, such is the nature of struggle. If struggle must occur, try to make the best of it. To acknowledge defeat is the sign of strength, to accept it is the opposite; to learn from it is what the warrior's spirit is all about.

4.) The "Calm." All I can do to describe this it is the sense of peace that I feel as a result of training. With the natural security of knowing you can destroy comes the even more important notion of knowing you have no need to. You lose the sense of fear AND hostility. I went from being the timid, crowd-shy kid in the class, to the calm guy chilling out in the summer breeze waiting for my friends to show up to go hang out. The sense of serenity, and the ability to see beauty in everything gives me the strength I need to carry on.

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#339518 - 05/05/07 12:15 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.




As a teenager, you have been doing nothing for any length of time.

Quote:

1.) Ninja as intellectuals. Ninja think before they act, weighing the consequences, and staying one step ahead.




Thats not intrinsic nor exclusive to ninjutsu, thats just not being a moron.

Quote:

2.) What is the point of being strong if everyone is strong? Then you are only average. What I'm trying to say is it is good to be strong, but NEVER harass the weak, because THEY are what helps you stand out.

3.) Too many people today have a weak soul....I mean they seem fragile, and self-serving..... Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards. And people have all but lost the warrior's spirit.




Read the highlighted statement from point 2, then read the abridged point 3. Notice anything?

Quote:

Please, trolls stay away!!!!




Good advice.


Edited by Cord (05/05/07 12:17 AM)
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#339519 - 05/05/07 06:41 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
I don't think that was called for, he doesn't appear to want to cause trouble, so lets not create unneeded hostility.
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The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339520 - 05/05/07 07:26 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I don't think that was called for, he doesn't appear to want to cause trouble




Time will tell. Pointing out the contradiction in outlook (points 2 and 3) was an attempt to help him better himself- something he seems very keen on doing. not all genuine help offered has to be pleasant.


Edited by Cord (05/05/07 07:29 AM)
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#339521 - 05/05/07 09:03 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Interesting first post, sveninja. Check this thread here for some related content (especially Cord's post) -

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...87#Post15939143
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#339522 - 05/05/07 09:28 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Sveninja:

There is nothing unusual about the "path" you are on... however it is yours, in that way different from all of us because it is yours... all of us endured it, and so shall you.

<<1.) Ninja as intellectuals. Ninja think before they act,
weighing the consequences

This is intelligent, MATURE martial practice un-unique to "Ninjitsu".

<<it is good to be strong, but NEVER harass the weak

A wise approach, but NOT because doing so will make you prominant, "stand out". Strength tempered by self-awareness, intelligence is a correct approach.

<<3.) The soul of a warrior.

A romantic notion, and quaint idea. I do not wish to discourage/inhibit your earnestness, Beware overly romantic notions of somehow being the "sheriff" in the proverbial white hat. Because of your ~skills~ whatever they might or might not be believe you can stand up to others burdens, their problems in order to "protect" them.

Engage when you must, avoid the avoidable... others problems are not necessarily what they appear.

Jeff

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#339523 - 05/05/07 11:20 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
I realize this is not unique to ninja...what do you think I am, a moron?

I just notice that ninja seem to stand out in this way more so than others. Plenty of other marital arts, guidance counselers, and even parents all champion the same stuff.

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#339524 - 05/05/07 11:21 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Tha is the right approach.

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#339525 - 05/05/07 11:26 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
I realize it may Seem that they are contradicting, but what I'm saying is you are permitted to dislike someone's weak attitudes, but you should not harass them. Everyone is has a right to be happy, even if their happiness makes another unhappy. I like physical, mental, and emotional strength, others enjoy just being who they naturally are. Some people think my life (abeit a short one) is dumb because I spend so much time practicing, and I think many peoples' lifestyles are dumb for spending hours watching T.V. To each his/her own I guess. I like strength, so I dislike the weakness I see, the key is I hate people who abuse others. Keep it to yourself, or encourage them.

Does this help explain what I mean? (I suck at writing, sorry.)

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#339526 - 05/05/07 11:28 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
The are not contradicting, you can dislike something, but still not harass it. I hate Harry Potter books, but you don't see me burning them.

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#339527 - 05/05/07 11:42 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Ronin1966]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Yes, I realize being mature and intelligent is not unique to ninja, but it is an attribute, and since I love ninjitsu, I figured I might as weel point it out.

The whole weak make the strong stand out...that was simply stating that without their weakness, you would simply another average Joe. If others want to become strong, that is wonderful. But I'm saying don't pick a fight with the weak simply because you can.

The whole "romantic notion", blah!!! I believe in some ethereal presense that inhabits a warrior, I meant it as the natural tendency for a warrior to want to better himself, not have awards, trophies, etc handed to him. Warriors EXPECT hardship. And the whole sheriff thing, I don't go around fixing everyone's problems...I'm not sure why you thought I did. How would they learn to cope themselves? I just assist when they are not capable. Most of the time it is just offering some advice, or finding out some secret that a friend desperatly needs to be aware of. Most of the time I use my physical abilities to assist people. Example: Due to my training in scalig building, ropes, etc, I excel in my rock climbng gym class. I use my knowledge of efficient climbing to teach others to accomplish feas that they believe themselves incapable of doing. I also have a small reputation for being a good martial artist, so when I choose to stand up for soemthing or someone, most people back off. I have entered many conflicts, (I think about four this year) and only once did anyone resort to physical force. (Someone tried to punched my face, I evaded it, laughed, and they chickened out.) All I do is lend support an/or strength to others...solveing everyone else's problems is a waste of time and energy...and is quite foolish.

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#339528 - 05/05/07 11:48 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

The are not contradicting, you can dislike something, but still not harass it. I hate Harry Potter books, but you don't see me burning them.




Nope what you said is that you value the weakness of the majority, as it enhances your strength as percieved by both yourself and others. That is ego, and also very arrogant. Projecting weakness onto someone based on their inability to perform specific tasks (fighting, rock climbing etc). Rather you should look for thge strengths that those people do possess, and learn from them.

You are a teenager, and it is only understandable that you face the world with confidence and ideals. Experience will teach you that there is no glory in a superiority complex.
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#339529 - 05/05/07 05:46 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
shorin-ji Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 146
Loc: victoria, b.c, canada
Quote:

Quote:

The are not contradicting, you can dislike something, but still not harass it. I hate Harry Potter books, but you don't see me burning them.




Nope what you said is that you value the weakness of the majority, as it enhances your strength as percieved by both yourself and others. That is ego, and also very arrogant. Projecting weakness onto someone based on their inability to perform specific tasks (fighting, rock climbing etc). Rather you should look for thge strengths that those people do possess, and learn from them.

You are a teenager, and it is only understandable that you face the world with confidence and ideals. Experience will teach you that there is no glory in a superiority complex.



well put. that superiority complex will end up getting you im some real bad trouble. any experienced fighter would take you as more of a joke then anything. no offence but someone here has to tell you...
you are taking this whole ninja thing too literally, i have read things like "the book of five rings","hagakure" and "the art of war" which are texts written by some of the greatist warriors of all time and they all are not to be taken literally but have to be some what translated into modern concepts. one of the reasons why i havent been bullied in a real long time is because i show confidance but not over confidance because over confidance shows weakness. ive seen way too many people get laid out by dangerous people because they thing that they are the big hero because of doing a bit of M.A or in your case very little M,A. I think that with this attitude your gunna get in a very bad situation and your grappling hook and ski mask arnt going to help you.

heres something that i had to add as well, it talks about the altimate power of ninjas realultimatepower
"I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window."
- you didnt perhaps write this did you?

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#339530 - 05/06/07 07:53 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: shorin-ji]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Woah, a little harsh Cord and Shorin-ji, let's try to keep things civil having said that, I do broadly agree with Cord's conclusions.

Quote:


For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.




Why? You don't live in the past, why not be a ninja of the present?

Quote:


1.) Ninja as intellectuals. Ninja think before they act, weighing the consequences, and staying one step ahead




If most (intelligent) people do this, why point out ninjas in particular?

Quote:

Strength is useless without weakness.




Why? Can't I be strong enough to lift a rock, without someone necessarily having to be weak?

Quote:

The soul of a warrior. Too many people today have a weak soul.




What's a soul, and how do I find it? What's a warrior?

Quote:

it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak




Why?

Quote:

Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.




Why shouldn't they?


Conclusion: Let's do some philosophy reading and define some terms
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#339531 - 05/06/07 09:01 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TimBlack]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Why? You don't live in the past, why not be a ninja of the present?


Because in the past they didn't have guns that could mow down a whole regiment of ninjas in a matter of seconds.

Quote:

If most (intelligent) people do this, why point out ninjas in particular?


Because it's just something obvious, to make it more interesting just add a label to it as well and make it "new and improved". Now how can something be both 'new' and 'improved'?

Quote:

Strength is useless without weakness.


Disagreed here. I can be as strong as I want and that strength isn't affected by the 'random joe' on the street. Just because I'm able to lift heavy weights doesn't mean I need a weak guy to be able to lift it.

Quote:

The soul of a warrior. Too many people today have a weak soul.


Define the soul of a warrior.

Quote:

it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak


If they are pretty, young, innocent, still in college/high school then you can count on me. Anything except that, it's none of my business.

Quote:

Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.


What? It's a crime?

Quote:

For the longest time I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.



Which like Cord said; Which isn't long at all.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339532 - 05/06/07 09:02 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: shorin-ji]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
Allow me to yet again explain, since I would hate to leave you all thinking I'm an jerk

I said I don't like weakness, and it's true. I don't. I do not project weakness on to the other kids in gym class simply because they can't do what I can. IN fact, their weakness comes from saying such statements as "Oh, I could never do that", "there is NO WAY I could do that.) I spend more time in each class encouraging kids. I've already gotten three students who full heartedly beleived themselves incapable of climbing two ropes simultaneously (one in each hand) to at least attempt it, and they succeeded. My goal is to bring out the strength people don't realize they possess.

And the whole "weak make the strong stand out....never harass them," take a moment to think about the kind of people this would apply to. Some how I doubt you and I go around curb stomping the helpless. (At least I pray we all don't.) This statement applies to the jerk-offs who WOULD do this kind of thing, because to them standing out is all they care about. It's meant to give these meatheads a reason they would understand. Somehow I doubt you can approach a 250lb thug named "Ted" and tell him that he shouldn't pick on the weak because it shows bad character. (And lacking the power of the Jedi, I don't think overpowering his mind is goning to work.) I personally don't care about standing out, the only reason I even bother to push myself in that gym class is purely for fun. I don't really read those texts, (Hagakure, Books of five rings, art of war, etc) because to me they are one: expensive, and two I don't see how they apply to me. I only said this stuff because it is just one way of thinking. Their are numerous ways to think, and mentioning them all might give me carpal tunnel syndrome.

No, I didn't write the "Realultimatepower" thing, that was some guy who's last name is Hamburger...first name I can't remember. I'm pretty sure any level headed person realizes that he created that site for entertainment. The only people how I know who believe all that made up bs about ninja is a Narutard.


I'm not overconfident, I still get shaky when I even have to say a speech in front of a class. I WISH I had more confidence, especially in combat, and in relationships, but that is sometihing that I will develope (hopefully )in time. I admit that many times I am scared to death. The difference between me and the weak is not always about physical attributes. While two people may have a fear of public speak, the one who gets up in front of his peers and bravely gives his speech is the strong one.

Did I mention I suck at explaining myself? I can't write for S***. (My English grade is my personal shame...)

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#339533 - 05/06/07 09:27 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Sveninja Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 26
WOW...that's a lot of questions to answer.

Okay let me give you may take on the subject. (Are all the qoutes you used mine?)

(Strength is useless without weakness.)- I agree, your own personal stength is not affected by someone else in terms of what YOU can do. But if everyone was just as strong as you were, then the widely excepted definition of "strong" would have to be moved up. It's like if was night all 24 hours. Things would change, and darkness would no longer seem as dark. If we all become strong, then to call ourselves strong, we must yet again advance furtehr. (Does this make sense?)

(Soul of the Warrior.)--Hmmm, how to describe it. I would say personaly for ME, it's the mindset that I must push myself to conquer my own faults, and take on new challenges. It also means the knowledge of knowing why one fights, and why fighting is the last resort, not the first. I realize many people foreign to MA do this too, but Warriors from all regions fo the globe (especially Asia) are typiclly models for this type of behavior. It's really nothing special, I was just saying that to many people (mostly kids in my view) don't possess the drive to better themselves, they expect things to be handed to them. That bugs me.

(it is a duty of the strong to protect the weak)--I like the part you said about pretty, young...but I would help others too. It is kind of selfish to only care about a small group that you particually approve of. I was once a very timid and weak ,I know what it is to be helpless in situations, so when I see someone else in those situations, I try to lend a hand. I like to help others because to me it just seems natural. What is the point of being strong if you have nothing to aplly it to. I don't care about how many bricks you can break, or how fast you cn punch, I care about how someone puts their abilities to positive, non-violent use.

(Too many people seek only to better themselves, and to define themselves be artificial standards.(--We did a little experiment in my pyschology class, were everyone anonynously wrote down how much extra credit they wanted (either 5 or 15 points), with the stipulation being if more than four kids said 15 EVERYONE would get nothing, but ifis less than 3 did, then those who said 15 would recieve 15. So the idea was to vote for five, so there is a 100% chance of reward, and everyone gets it. BUT NO!!! EVERYONE ACTED SELFISHLY, THINKING THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH BEING GREEDY. BECAUSE THESE SELFISH KIDS CARED ONLY ABOUT SELF ADVANCEMENT, THE WHOLE CLASS SUFFERED. And the artificial standards? I don't see why people care about the designer clothes you wear, or the group of friends you have. Clothes cover our naked bodies, and friends are friends. I for one do not see the value in leting someone else say that you "fit in" or are "successful" simply because of your social position or the things you have, or whatever.

(I've been on a sort of personal journey to bring myself closer to the ancient Ninja of the past.)---True, I have been on a journey, and I fully admit it hasn't gone on for long. Sorry, can't change the fact that I lack years compared to you. I have repeatedly stated I don't claim to be any master of anything, but for me, my journey HAS been a long time in my view, because I has been on it for the majority of my life. I am actually happy to say that I have not been around long, because thi means i still have a huge amount of life left to continue. I look forward to this with great joy.

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#339534 - 05/06/07 10:56 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
I am also a teenager, and am also training in Bujikan, as well as mixing in other schools of thought. I can see how many of you views may make sense, but I prefer to not get involved with other people. I pursuit strength simply to better myself. If others wish to follow my path, that is a beautiful thing, but I make no accustaions if they don't. Im close to 19, and I can say that while I too seem to have been training for a long time, I don't expect anyone to congradulate my endeavour. I'm happy acknowledging to myself that I am strong. Everyone else is just that: EVERYONE ELSE. I like the concepts of Ninpo, and I feel a calm dignity in having pursued my own path. I have taken ideas from Hatsumi, but I have also incorporated my own beliefs, because in the end, if you choose to believe what someone else believes...it's not your own.

I like what Mr. Cord is saying. I am not saying that I am a superior "ninja-teen", but I think in terms of maturity and discipline, I am worlds beyond. Hopefully you will realize that the way of the ninja is not about strength alone.

The whole "The strong stand out because of weak people" thing...in theory your analogy makes sense, but who cares? So be it if I am able to toss shuriken, or a frisbee, or pocket change into someone's face before raining a whole keg's worth of blows to vital spots. To me, these abilities are more about my passion for tradition ninja training. In real life, I use what I have learned through Bujikan, trial and error, and research to COMPLIMENT my self defense. Today's society is ill-suited for the stereotypical ninja, but a massive amount of their abilites and logic can still be applied. Call me what you will, but I think a REAL ninja would be someone who understands that the term "Ninja" is more of a loose concept of a way combat and life, not a concrete thing.
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#339535 - 05/06/07 12:55 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Somehow I doubt you can approach a 250lb thug named "Ted" and tell him that he shouldn't pick on the weak because it shows bad character.


Why wouldn't I be able to?

Quote:

But if everyone was just as strong as you were, then the widely excepted definition of "strong" would have to be moved up.


That's called advancing or progressing. Has nothing to do with "Strength without weakness" thing you were trying to explain. I'll explain in a moment.

Quote:

the mindset that I must push myself to conquer my own faults, and take on new challenges.


hmm I'd rather call it the "satisfactory-drive" based loosely on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I think you're in the third stage.

Quote:

It is kind of selfish to only care about a small group that you particually approve of.


Yet again, where I am, you stick your nose into other people businesses you might end up stabbed or shot.

Quote:

What is the point of being strong if you have nothing to aplly it to.


Keeping yourself alive if negotiation fails, not trying to get yourself hurt.

About your psychology class. It's part of Darwin's theory. Some people will need to step on other people to advance. If you can't really accept it, just let it go and become a hermit in the mountain or something. I for one would no doubt gladly step on some innocent person or persons in order to get a future for my family especially my kids, and if I'm wrong, then I'll gladly burn in the nine hells.


Quote:

And the artificial standards? I don't see why people care about the designer clothes you wear, or the group of friends you have. Clothes cover our naked bodies, and friends are friends.


Since you're still in your younger years your world is a bit different from the socio-economic world most people face when they graduate from college and start working.

I'll give an example. Using myself (which I hate). I work as a translator but sometimes, I'm a guide. I am, however, starting to work in the field of transportation and freight, which will require that I communicate with a lot of people in higher social and economic positions.

Now in your teen years, it might be ok to be a loner or staying away from 'popular kids', but later you'll see that being friends with some rich entrepreneurs will help a lot with surviving in this world in terms of monetary and financial survival even if you hate their guts and have to act like they're the best thing since Darth Vader.

Basically what I'm saying, right now you shouldn't worry about the people you know, but when you're graduating you should've by now gotten some names and established some connections because that's what the world is all about. Connections with people who can take you somewhere in this world. In my world, you dress like 'average joe' you won't impress people. If you wear armani, versace or louis vuitton, people are impressed and more prone to do business with you because they know you are SOMEONE not just SOMEBODY.

Quote:

Sorry, can't change the fact that I lack years compared to you.


Don't compare yourself to others, only compare yourself with yourself in the past. That's what it is to be stronger. Stronger than yourself, that's where you got the wrong foot in the beginning. Comparing yourself to other people won't get you far.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339536 - 05/06/07 01:16 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
I agree with Taison, what is the point of getting involved in other people's business. If you always rush to the aid of these so called "weak" people...then how will they ever get stronger? You rob them of their time to shine.


And Taison is yet again correct in saying that steping on people, and carring about the "in-crowd" ios acceptible in certain circumstances. You need to stop being so naive and become a true ninja. It's called playing the agme; ninja do it very well. So get over yourself.


I'm beginning to think Mr. Taison is quite smart, maybe you should listen to him more...or listen to me, heck listen to both, I think it would straighten you out quite a bit.
_________________________
What is more perfect than a breeze on a warm day in spring? The love of a beautiful woman.

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#339537 - 05/06/07 02:44 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TheUnseenSword]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Taison is wise, of that there is no doubt.

BTW Svenninga and the Unseensword, it is spelt "Bujinkan". You both left out the first "n". You guys must have the same dictionary or something
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#339538 - 05/06/07 03:36 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Prizewriter]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
About stepping on people, I think I forgot to mention that ninjas would sometimes kill innocent people to get their disguise in order to get closer to their intended target.

Oh yeah, does anyone actually have a clue how ninjas actually operated? They weren't much of the "I'm going to run on rooftops, smash into their living room and then take out 10 samurais from the shadow". They were much more boring than that. They'd disguise themselves as one of the samurais, and kill the big cajuna when he's asleep and then just get out of the place. Sometimes some innocent people died so the ninja could get a proper outfit. Big deal, tyrants were killed, and so were some potential leaders.

If anyone ever played "Hitman", then basically you've got a good idea how ninja actually were.

Another note, most of the successful ninjas were kunoichi. It's a lot easier for a pretty girl to infiltrate

In my honest opinion, I think ninjas are not much different from any other assassin caste around the world. Heck, they're basically secret agents that infiltrate and mingle with the target and strike at his weakest moments.

Want to be impressed, research about the Hashasshin or something like that. Group of assassin originating from Baghdad, the original guys. They even invented the word Assassin.

Quote:

Taison is wise


And mentally unstable accompanied with sudden mood swings and a very bad temper.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339539 - 05/06/07 04:21 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Aeras Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Colorado
The ninja were primarily spies, not assassins. Common misconception. .
_________________________
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies simply because they become fashions."- G.K. Chesterton

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#339540 - 05/07/07 02:35 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Svenn/Unseen

I say waaaaayyyy to much time talking in cypto-philosopy martial arts terms and not enough time actual training in martial arts.



Edited by cxt (05/07/07 02:36 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#339541 - 05/08/07 03:26 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Prizewriter]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
Crud, I r bahd spellur!
_________________________
What is more perfect than a breeze on a warm day in spring? The love of a beautiful woman.

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#339542 - 05/08/07 03:28 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: cxt]
TheUnseenSword Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 17
What's wrong with talking funny?
(and if I practice much more than I do right now I'm going to get tennis elbow or something.)
_________________________
What is more perfect than a breeze on a warm day in spring? The love of a beautiful woman.

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#339543 - 05/08/07 03:57 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TheUnseenSword]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Quote:

Crud, I r bahd spellur!




You (both) are.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#339544 - 05/09/07 02:09 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Prizewriter]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Prizewriter, my friend, let me finish this sentence for you.

Quote:

You (both) are.




the same person.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339545 - 05/10/07 02:57 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Aeras Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Colorado
Quote:


the same person.

-Taison out




I couldn't help it....I laughed so loudly at this I disturbed everyone else in the ER, and woke up a patient in the middle of a sleep study. Taison you crack me up.
_________________________
"Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies simply because they become fashions."- G.K. Chesterton

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#339546 - 05/11/07 01:13 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Aeras]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Taison you crack me up.



Glad that I entertained you.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339547 - 05/11/07 08:59 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
a lot of wisdom there cord.

I noticed the desire to feel special in a lot of people, in my uncle and his interest of "chi gung" but his unwillingness to break a sweat.

in a 47 year old hot dog chef who looks down upon others because they are "too rational, too idealistic, too much of a guardian etc."

or in the eccentric wrestler, the extreme conspiracy theorist. The list is endless

It seems nobody wants to be average.

Being a teenager, I think the whole desire to be a NINJA is fueled by the ego, or maybe it is because you need to kill a lot of free time.
_________________________
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#339548 - 05/12/07 01:00 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: pepto_bismol]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
in that way were all average, evern by trying to rise above the "masses". maybe that steems from w wrong view of what average is.

ninja this, ninja that. i just came back from a national competetion with 2 gold meadls, and im still depressed about every day crap. let the boy live his dream while he can. while he's busy running up trees his school friends are busy unhooking bra's. where's more enlightenment going to be found?

yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#339549 - 05/12/07 05:31 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: student_of_life]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

let the boy live his dream while he can. while he's busy running up trees his school friends are busy unhooking bra's.




SoL, usually you don't say very powerful words, but this quote, is by far, the best thing I've read on this website the whole duration I've been here. Quote of the Year buddy.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339550 - 05/12/07 08:52 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: student_of_life]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

let the boy live his dream while he can. while he's busy running up trees his school friends are busy unhooking bra's. where's more enlightenment going to be found?

yours in life




Awesome.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#339551 - 05/12/07 10:10 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i made a funny
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#339552 - 05/12/07 01:52 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: student_of_life]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
sorry - a teenager in the western world circa 2007 has no reason to be thinking about being a ninja. you should be thinking about school stuff and girls, etc.

there are plenty of other role models who are better for a kid than ninjas - you should try to identify some, and follow them.

and, if you really want to pretend to be a killer - join the military and they will train you and give you a chance, and you can do some good in the process, maybe.

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#339553 - 05/18/07 08:33 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Sveninja,
You have a lot of ideas about what a ninja is and how to act/be like one. How did you come to these ideas and conclusions? What were your sources?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#339554 - 05/18/07 03:07 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: JoelM]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I don't think Sveninja/TheUnseensword will be back...
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#339555 - 05/18/07 03:11 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Prizewriter]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Oh well...
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#339556 - 05/18/07 04:20 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: JoelM]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Quote:

Sveninja,
You have a lot of ideas about what a ninja is and how to act/be like one. How did you come to these ideas and conclusions? What were your sources?




TV?

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#339557 - 05/20/07 02:47 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: jpoor]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
Highly doubt it was TV.. and I really don't think he was getting at the "killing" aspect of the ninja. All of his stuff seems to be philosophy derived, no matter how insightful or common sense it was.

I think the kid was just trying to be helpful and share his ideas. Some of you were mature enough to attempt to have an intelligent conversation with him. I think it's a shame that many of you just poked fun at a student who is entering the world of philosophy, emphasizing good treament of others, encouragement, confidence, perseverance, and personal growth.

You may believe he's not on the same level as you, and you may be right, but as was pointed out.... he could be following his age group and be doing much worse right now.

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#339558 - 05/21/07 06:00 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Joe7987]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
But he was posting as two people, both Sveninja and UnseenSword, in FA.com, posting as two persona's is an offense worthy of a ban.

Then second reason is, he's just a troll, trying to gain attention.

Third reason is, he had no friggin' clue what a ninja is. I don't have, nor do I claim I do, but he had none whatsoever.

Fourth reason is, I don't like people who post as two personas just to gain attention. FA.com isn't a forum created for getting attention. If you're here, expect to contribute or seek guidance, not attention.

Quote:

I think it's a shame that many of you just poked fun at a student


He brought that onto himself actually.

Quote:

emphasizing good treament of others, encouragement, confidence, perseverance, and personal growth.


He just types what YOU want to hear. I think I've said over a million times when I was younger "I'll treat every person with respect and dignity" then the same evening I was punching someone over something stupid.

Teenagers, you can't really take them seriously unless they're mature beyond the norm.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339559 - 05/21/07 10:57 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
I'm with Taison on tis one. I'm all for helping and guiding and so on. But this wasn't just some misguided young person that was wrong, or misled or what have you. This was someone who was trying to mislead intentionally.
_________________________
Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
Jim

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#339560 - 05/22/07 02:56 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
Quote:

But he was posting as two people, both Sveninja and UnseenSword, in FA.com, posting as two persona's is an offense worthy of a ban.




That is a very fair and valid reason.

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#339561 - 05/22/07 08:06 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Joe7987]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

That is a very fair and valid reason.



'nuff said.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339562 - 05/22/07 09:52 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Those two aren't my other persona's at all...honest...
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339563 - 05/23/07 05:49 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Joe7987]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Quote:

Quote:

But he was posting as two people, both Sveninja and UnseenSword, in FA.com, posting as two persona's is an offense worthy of a ban.




That is a very fair and valid reason.




Couldn’t agree more. Posting under two different identities is one of the VILEST possible offenses. I shall add that Taison, in addition to doing a great job as a moderator, is also one of the most competent martial artists alive, and an incredibly handsome man, although he’s too modest to say so himself.

-Taison out




Oooops…

Er, I mean, Tashigae out.
_________________________
&#25991;&#27494;&#38617;&#20840;

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#339564 - 05/23/07 08:11 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Tashigae]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
*Ban*

Impersonation is an offense worthy of a ban.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339565 - 05/23/07 08:44 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
None of you would guess I'm also Mattj and Jkogas, It's great that I have friends good enough to lend me their photos and also that I'm smart enough to make sure there's always a reason for peope not to see us in the same place.

But you guys won't believe me anyway so I can just gladly carry on my charade
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339566 - 05/23/07 08:49 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
*BAN*

Claims of impersonation is an offense worthy of a ban.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339567 - 05/23/07 09:57 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Quote:

Claims of impersonation is an offense worthy of a ban.




Does that rule apply to impersonating forum members only?

I'm actually Elvis Presley . As you can see, I'm not dead. I'm currently posting from the Area 51 where I'm being held prisoner. I'm also Jack the Ripper . How is that possible? Simple. I'm immortal, because both those names are actually covers for my true identity: I'm really the alchemist known as the Count of Saint-Germain . How was I able to remain hidden for all those centuries? Well, I must confess I was known as Hatori Hanzo back in my ninja years. Oh, by the way, in case you wonder why the army is keeping me in the Area 51, the reason is I'm actually an alien from outer space .

-Aleyster Crowley out.

(damn, gave myself out.)
_________________________
&#25991;&#27494;&#38617;&#20840;

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#339568 - 05/23/07 02:19 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Tashigae]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Well, the rules only apply to impersonating forum members, so you're free.

and quit the "-Tashigae out". . that's my trademark. I'll send you virii if you don't stop it.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339569 - 06/07/07 10:30 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
thatguy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 11
Quote:

let the boy live his dream while he can. while he's busy running up trees his school friends are busy unhooking bra's.






That just made my day!
_________________________
"I am this close to raping you!" Will Ferrel

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#339570 - 06/08/07 03:41 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

Well, the rules only apply to impersonating forum members, so you're free.




I am t3h suck at wow.



Taison out
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#339571 - 06/08/07 11:21 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
Ninja were first and foremost assassins. They were not warriors in an open battlefield, but killers from the dark. Those who would poison, stab in the back, destroy reputations and perform clandestine murders. The only real code was that of secrecy and popular suspension of disbelief in their existance. Many instructors try to paint them with a warriors brush (ninja of old) when the last thing they wanted to do was face a warrior in open combat.


1.) Ninja as intellectuals.
Being an intellectual doesn't mean planning ahead. Def:a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, esp. on an abstract and general level.

2.) Strength is useless without weakness.
Ugliness is not weakness, it is perception, cold is not weakness, it is absence of heat. Weakness lives where willpower fears to tread.

3.) The soul of a warrior.
Not to say that I don't agree with you, but ninjas were assassins, not warriors. Yes the warrior spirit could certainly be more widespread and it would definitely help people in their everyday lives.

4.) The "Calm."
Once again, you are absolutely right. Ninja may not always exemplify this though. They were as tigers patiently crouching. Not calm but patient and highly aware.

I think you are confusing ninja spirit with the martial spirit that any modern martial art tries to instill in us daily.
The ancient ninja is a different matter altogether.
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339572 - 06/09/07 02:36 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
I don't get the whole " omg ninjas are the best" thing everyone has.

Essentially what hes saying is that Sam Fisher is a ninja.
He just doesn't wear silly hoods and have phosphate bombs in his pocket.
_________________________
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#339573 - 06/09/07 06:16 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: crablord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Basically, ninjas weren't like Sam Fisher.

All this crap about ninjas being wanna-be Fisher or Solid Snake is just hookus-pookus based on Hollywood.

A real ninja were more or less like Agent 47 from the games "Hitman". Disguise, careful planning, infiltration and information was the primary thing they used. Guess what most ninjas were. Yup, females.

All that crap about ninjas running from roof to roof, jumping through the night, infiltrating a building and then take out the enemy leader is just hollywood. The real scenario was more or less, ninjas would disguise themselves as the enemy, infiltrate, stay there for a time, study and plan the enemy leader's habits, and then strike at him when he's at his weakest. Does it take time? Yup, some ninjas spent months, even years.

Now, why do you think most ninjas were female?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339574 - 06/09/07 09:49 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
thatguy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 11
Quote:

Now, why do you think most ninjas were female?




Because ninja sex is the best sex! But also, weren't ninjas used primarily as spies? Because I'm sure that if everytime you sent out a ninja it was to kill someone, people would catch on.
_________________________
"I am this close to raping you!" Will Ferrel

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#339575 - 06/09/07 10:50 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: thatguy]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
This is ancient Japan your talking about here, so they might not always send women out for that purpose, regardless of the gender or the target.
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339576 - 06/10/07 02:22 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Mindless teenagers. As soon as I say female, you automatically assume sex. Get educated or something.

Females have their ways with men. It's a lot easier to get into enemy's keeps being female than a male.

Women can get guys to talk pretty easily to be honest. Trust me, I've said a lot of things when I should've shut up.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339577 - 06/10/07 02:33 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Don't be mad at me! I just read the last post and responded to that...
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339578 - 06/10/07 04:51 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Not you. Thatguy! I'm just using the quick reply thing.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339579 - 06/11/07 10:03 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Now, why do you think most ninjas were female?

-Taison




Just because I'm bored...Where did you get the info that most ninjas were females?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#339580 - 06/11/07 01:18 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: JoelM]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Logic.

Plus, most of the texts I've read usually hints towards being assassinated by women. Imagine it, a shogun, wouldn't let any armed soldier within his quarters, yet, women could go in and out as they wished. O_O

Must ring some bells.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339581 - 06/12/07 08:58 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
So in other words you have no more facts than the silly kids do to base your knowlegde of ninjas on?
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#339582 - 06/12/07 12:29 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Quote:

Logic.

Plus, most of the texts I've read usually hints towards being assassinated by women. Imagine it, a shogun, wouldn't let any armed soldier within his quarters, yet, women could go in and out as they wished. O_O

Must ring some bells.

-Taison out




Although I lack the competence to be positive about it, I would disagree. The very few historical reports I know of assassinations by ninja (not that there aren't any others, it just appears to be the only ones I know of) were carried out by men (at least those for which the culprit is known).

As for shogun, I don't think any of them was ever assassinated, if you consider Tokugawa Ieyasu's bakufu as the beginning of the shogunate, because it started a LOOONG period of total peace in Japan that lasted until the Meiji jidai imperial restauration (1868, if I remember right) which ended the shogunate.

And last but not least, in traditional Japanese society, a woman is SOOO FAR from doing whatever she wishes.

However, I suppose using women as spies (which, as far as I know, was the primary use of a ninja) would make sense. I even admit a woman would make for a great assassin if you could get her to become your target's concubine or mistress. But that's easier said than done, my friend.

One last thing: I've read that Hattori Hanzo himself created a unit of kunoichi. But there's so much BS circulating about that dude's life I'm definitely not sure how much credibility this story holds...
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#339583 - 06/12/07 01:11 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: JoelM]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

So in other words you have no more facts than the silly kids do to base your knowlegde of ninjas on?




Yeah. Ironic isn't it?

Oh well, back to work.

-Taison out
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#339584 - 06/13/07 10:48 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
When you become educated about the subject and escape the slavery infuence of holywood, you will realize that ninja were not nearly as glamerous as ninjitsu schools make them out to be.
They were not combatants, they were killers who were just as satisfied poisoning as they were sneaking in in the night and slitting your throat. Open combat was to be avoided at all costs. Spies and backstabbers, poisoning, sneaking, lying and infiltrating though decaption. Never warriors.
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#339585 - 06/13/07 12:22 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
And where did you get your facts?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#339586 - 06/15/07 10:51 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: JoelM]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
hmmmm, Lets see if I can provide enough for you.
This one clearly states thatthey were not honourable warriors and that was the reason for their employment. They were not subject to the honour of the bushido code and as such could perform tasks that Samurai could not be expected to. They were not as well armed and trained for stealth for this very reason. Samurai warriors trained for battle not for hiding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
Here is another.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/ninja.htm
Not to say taht ninja weren't effective at their chosen profession, because they certainly were. It is only to say that they were not proponents of bushido "the warriors code"
and that is what made them so useful to Daimyos across Japan. They trained in stealth and not open combat. They knew they were ill prepared for open battle as their equipment was normally designed for stealth and concealability. As well as the fact that the use of weapons by anyone other than Samurai was outlawed (so they had to keep it secret) It was during this time that ninjitsu was finally being studied as a definite art. It was not born of one discipline but of willing individuals with skills brought with them. Over the centuries they began to form what we now know as ninjitsu.
Certainly feel free to show me that I am wrong.
J
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train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339587 - 06/15/07 11:24 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
At least you have sources.
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#339588 - 06/15/07 11:28 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
A great man once said "your rights end where anothers begin" If someone has happiness but at the expense of another, then it is wrong that he has it in the first place.
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339589 - 06/15/07 12:09 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
You do realize that Wiki has been shown to be largely unreliable don't you?

I have no idea about the credibility of the other link, but to convince me (not that I have an opinion one way or the other at the moment) you would have to cite more scholarly references.
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I know even less than you might think.

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#339590 - 06/24/07 07:27 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Sveninja]
TenguRyu Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/21/07
Posts: 3
The Teenage world is very confusing and on the other hand enlightening. It is a time where you find your calling, as a matter of speeking. Ninjutsu is an ancient art and to this day no one can pin point the origans.
If you are seeking the Art go to Japan, don't waste your time in Euopean Countries.
If you want to form a street style Ninjutsu, combine it with the Sas combat, krav magar and pakour.
It's your choice the Ancient way or the Modern way.

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#339591 - 06/25/07 02:13 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TenguRyu]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Where's your sources?

-Taison out
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#339592 - 06/26/07 02:40 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: TenguRyu]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Ninjutsu is an ancient art and to this day no one can pin point the origans.




Quite right. I dont think i even know what origans are. The origin of ninjutsu is well and widely documented however, and of the 9 ryu that make up the Bujinkan and Genbukan and Jinenkan, I believe 3 are traced back as the only surviving ryu of Ninpo.

Quote:

If you are seeking the Art go to Japan, don't waste your time in Euopean Countries.




All in the Bujinkan of 5th dan and above have been ranked personaly by Hatsumi, having travelled to him in Japan. No bujinkan practitioner may open a school/ teach on their own unless they have gone through this process. This fact makes your assertion regarding legitemate European schools absolute cr4p.

Quote:

If you want to form a street style Ninjutsu, combine it with the Sas combat, krav magar and pakour.
It's your choice the Ancient way or the Modern way.




If you want to leap about for fun and fitness do some free running. If you want to be special forces, joint the military and work hard.
If you want to pretend to be a then by all means have fun, but if you want to study legit ninpo, then look up a recognised instructor in your area and do it properly- then you will realise how absolutely ridiculous your post is
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#339593 - 06/26/07 04:40 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Wow....more holes than a fish net. Its funny how no matter how much legitimate info there is on ninja/ninjutsu people still seem to manage to find the wrong sources. Wikipedia and howstuffworks.com are not reliable sources for this subject matter.

1. Ninja were not primarily women. It is widely believed that many were samurai trained for clandestine operations. The majority were believed to be average people hired to gather intel posing as gardeners, cooks and various other “hired help”. Some were women but the image of the kunoichi is far from accurate.

2. Ninja were not assassins. This was one of their functions but their primary reason for being was to gather intel.

3. The myths and reputation surrounding the ninja were allowed and encouraged and sometimes started by the ninja in order to give them a psychological advantage over the enemy. If the locals believed ninja were 10 feet tall and could shoot fire out of their eyes they weren’t going to argue.

4. Saying the last thing ninja wanted was to find themselves in open battle with a samurai is partially true but not for the reasons some may think. They weren't typical soldiers so their job wasn't to confront guards. It was to collect info, spy or yes assassinate. So avoiding guards only increased their chances of success. They were just as skilled as many other "warriors" of their time and don’t even get me started on the “ninja-to”.

5. The samurai's "Bushido code" wasn't something followed as most like to glamorize and came about as a means to smooth relations with the local populous in a time when there was no longer a need or desire for the samurai. Some might want to look into what the samurai really were vise believing what Hollywood says they were. Same goes for ninja. I'd say 98% of what many "know" about ninja and samurai is either Hollywood BS or the ramblings of some wanabe "ninja master" who also learned everything he knows from Hollywood.

If you want to pattern your life after the ideals of what is believed to be the "ninja way of life" or Bushido that's fine. I'd suggest a bit of research though before talking about living life “like” a samurai or ninja. What's wrong with doing what your parents tell you is right? Why is it cooler to do the right thing and live your life the "right" way because it's how the ninja or samurai did than because its how your parents raised you? If you want to live the warrior life join the military, we need all we can get and I have plenty of jobs for you. If you want to be a ninja then there is always SEALs, CIA, SAS and many other groups who are the closest you will ever come to the work of the ninja. But if you’re going to follow the "ninja way of life" i hope your at least studying a LEGITAMATE system. Let's be real here folks...the study of the martial arts isn't what makes you a better person. It's the ideal, the lessons of “hard work pays off”, the mental fortitude to push yourself past what you believe you can achieve, the dedication to the perfection of something in your life that enhances YOU and those things can be found in any avenue of life regardless of what your chosen activity is. For most, whether they want to admit it or not, the martial arts are a hobby. It's something to occupy their time and their minds and an escape from work or school or what ever they feel to be mundane in their lives. Not trying to down play anyone’s dedication to their art or training but if you had never gotten involved in the martial arts but instead fell into computers, cars, basketball or any infinite number of "hobbies" i'm sure you would have been just as dedicated, just as enriched. I for one don't believe the martial arts should be held accountable for making someone a "better person". Morals weren't exactly stressed in training until the recent bastardization of the martial arts. When jutsu turned to Do and training had to become less of an art of war and more of an art of life. It's called nin-JUTSU and not nin-DO for a reason. It's not a path to enlightenment it's a martial art. It's not a blueprint for a better life; it's a means of self defense. It’s an art form and will enrich your life just as any other form of art will but its place isn’t specifically to teach you good morals and behavior just as no other martial art should be. If you want to see a good documentary on ninjutsu i suggest picking up a copy of Shinobi- Winds of the 34 Generations. It's a good DVD.
http://webcurb.com/shinobiwinds/

No specific meaning...i just like this one.
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#339594 - 06/27/07 03:05 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: laf7773]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
And where's your sources?

-Taison out
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#339595 - 06/27/07 03:44 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
http://www.ninpo.org/ninpohistory/ninpohistory.html

Just for starters, written by a historian with a PhD in Japanese history. There are also sources for this essay at the bottom of the page. You can also refer to the documentary i mentioned earlier.
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#339596 - 06/27/07 03:48 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: laf7773]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
At least you got sources.

-Taison out
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#339597 - 06/27/07 10:17 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Taison, Laf was a moderator on here for a long time, and is very well versed in authentic ninjutsu amongst other things. He was immensely helpful to me during my brief daliance with taijutsu, and has fielded all manner of weird and whacky Ninja-related threads with more patience and humour than i would think humanly possible.
He not only knows the history, but studies the art personaly (though I believe not exclusively), and his word can be trusted with confidence.
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#339598 - 06/27/07 11:47 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I'm just picking up where Joel left.

And where's your sources? Err.. wait.. no need. .

I think I was here when Laf was a mod. I think it was like 2 or 3 weeks after I became a mod that he stepped down.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339599 - 06/28/07 12:26 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: jpoor]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
Yes I realize that wikipedia is a user updated resource. It is not completely unreliable as you say but certainly it is not the best source. Merely the easiest for everyone to find. I DID cite another source but now I will cite others so that I can better make my point.

The Historical Ninja By Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi

Hatsumi, Masaaki (June 1981). Ninjutsu: History and Tradition. Unique Publications.

Turnbull, Stephen (February 2003). Ninja AD 1460-1650. Osprey Publishing.

Most Ninja historical text (which is sketchy at best(even Hanzo Hattori (am very prominant leader and a ninja it is said), was in history books regarded as a Samurai as no one liked to give power to the myth at that time)) Ninja began as a philosophy and a tactic in war. None of these individuals had a "label" to call themselves. They merely performed the tasks that a Samurai could not. It was hundreds of years before the art began to be passed through word of mouth as a real clearly delineated art.
"As the passage of time continued to unfold the fabric of Japan’s history, the ninja and their ways of accomplishment, known as Ninjutsu, were always present behind the scenes of all the eras to ensure the survival and independence of their families and lands. In the regions of Iga and Koga, Ninjutsu became a special skill, refined and perfected by over seventy families, each with their own unique methods, motivations, and ideals.

Japanese history books, however, are curiously limited in their coverage and acknowledgment of the shadowy figures known as ninja. In textbooks even as recent as one generation ago, Hanzo Hattori, the head of one of the most influential ninja families in Iga and Shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa’s director of ninja, was referred to as "a bushi (samurai) from the remote province of Iga". This hesitancy to openly acknowledge the ninja’s role in the forging of modern Japan stems perhaps from the glorification of the samurai concept and ethic that became very popular after the Meiji Restoration (1868). The Meiji Restoration abolished the samurai class and gave all citizens the right to affect social trappings that had once been reserved for samurai only."
The Historical Ninja

These warriors were the spies, the harrassers, the assassins and the reconnaisance of early Daimyo. Specializing in all forms of secret warfare. Hard to get into it all here. A fascinating topic though.
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339600 - 06/28/07 12:42 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: laf7773]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
Funny that you deride my sources (Chosen only for ease of access to everyone) but yet agree with my every point.

" Its funny how no matter how much legitimate info there is on ninja/ninjutsu people still seem to manage to find the wrong sources. Wikipedia and howstuffworks.com are not reliable sources for this subject matter."

"1. Ninja were not primarily women. It is widely believed that many were samurai trained for clandestine operations. The majority were believed to be average people hired to gather intel posing as gardeners, cooks and various other “hired help”. Some were women but the image of the kunoichi is far from accurate."
Absolutely right, the culture at the time did not allow women to hold such a vital and important role in war. Not to say that they weren't used, but that the common misconception is that the majority was female is simply that, a misconception. When you say that they weren't primarily assassins, again you are completely correct (as far as the sketchy historical details can assertain.) They had far more clandestine jobs than just assassination (although they DID perform this task as well,) they gathered intel, they did reconnaisance, the acted as harrassing parties to opposing camps, too many tasks to mention. Never open warfare. HOWEVER, (as you stated) this was for a multitude of reason. Their equipment was often not suited and open combat is hardly the domain of a stealthy operation that "ninja" would be called to do. Which puts us to your next point...

"2. Ninja were not assassins. This was one of their functions but their primary reason for being was to gather intel." Again, as I stated previously, I agree.

"3. The myths and reputation surrounding the ninja were allowed and encouraged and sometimes started by the ninja in order to give them a psychological advantage over the enemy. If the locals believed ninja were 10 feet tall and could shoot fire out of their eyes they weren’t going to argue."
Of course, myths perpetuated in every culture about everything that wasn't open knowledge because of the lack of mass media to inform. Why would they argue? It suited their purpose to be seen in such a way.

"4. Saying the last thing ninja wanted was to find themselves in open battle with a samurai is partially true but not for the reasons some may think. They weren't typical soldiers so their job wasn't to confront guards. It was to collect info, spy or yes assassinate. So avoiding guards only increased their chances of success. They were just as skilled as many other "warriors" of their time and don’t even get me started on the “ninja-to”."
Indeed!!! Almost word for word what I was getting at. Samurai trained for open battle and as their primary job, many were very proficient. Ninja were not called upon to do these things as it wasn't condusive to getting their job done. Again, I completely agree!

"5. The samurai's "Bushido code" wasn't something followed as most like to glamorize and came about as a means to smooth relations with the local populous in a time when there was no longer a need or desire for the samurai. Some might want to look into what the samurai really were vise believing what Hollywood says they were. Same goes for ninja. I'd say 98% of what many "know" about ninja and samurai is either Hollywood BS or the ramblings of some wanabe "ninja master" who also learned everything he knows from Hollywood."
THIS is a difficult point, because even though you are 100% correct historically a samurai couldn't be OPENLY asked to do such things. It was dishonorable. MANY abuses of samurai "power" came at the hands of these warriors but they were still subject to the rules of bushido in the eyes of their superiors and open judgement from them. Anything that could bring dishonour to a leader OPENLY would be frowned on. Make no mistake, in my opinion, these warriors were no better in all practicality than our knights (who were by no means princes of honour either)


This is an interesting topic, but since your point was to say that you wanted to adhere to a code that helped you in your personal life, I will say this. Kudos to you.
Ninja or not, samurai or not, the code you speak of is certainly a good one to be held by its ethos.
IF you are going to cite "ninja" or "samurai" then as a martial practicioner I would say that it is our responsibility to be informed, because to the initiate, our word carries weight.
Peace and love
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339601 - 06/29/07 05:31 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
groundfighter,

I didn't say i agreed or disagreed with anything you posted, only that the two resources you mentioned are not reliable for this sort of information. I try to stray away from responding to any one person individually in my posts but rather try to respond to the thread as a whole. There were things in your posts that i did touch on and no i didn't agree with everything you said. The things i didn't agree with are what i responded to. The rest was in response to things commented on in other member’s posts.

Quote:

Originally posted by groundfighter: They were not combatants, they were killers who were just as satisfied poisoning as they were sneaking in in the night and slitting your throat. Open combat was to be avoided at all costs. Spies and backstabbers, poisoning, sneaking, lying and infiltrating though decaption. Never warriors.




Quote:

Originally posted by groundfighter: Ninja were first and foremost assassins. They were not warriors in an open battlefield, but killers from the dark. Those who would poison, stab in the back, destroy reputations and perform clandestine murders. The only real code was that of secrecy and popular suspension of disbelief in their existance. Many instructors try to paint them with a warriors brush (ninja of old) when the last thing they wanted to do was face a warrior in open combat.




The things in bold i do disagree with and have responded to in my previous post. So i did NOT agree with everything you said, i only responded to that which i didn't agree. The fact is there will never be a way to fully know the role of the "ninja" at any point due to their nature. They relied on and influenced many misconceptions about who they were as did the enemy. Written documentation is sparse at best but i've spent the better part of almost a decade trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in regards to what is history and what is myth. I'm even pushing for orders back to Japan after this rotation just so i can get back in full contact with friends who have access to better resources, not only in ninjutsu but other areas as well.
_________________________
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#339602 - 07/03/07 09:32 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: laf7773]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
true enough, The bold areas are based on historical evidence and coloured by my opinion of what I feel is a logical interpretation of the facts. You are however correct in that there is no imperical way to know for sure. I DID enjoy reading your well informed posts though.
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339603 - 07/03/07 09:35 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: laf7773]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
OHHH, although on second reading I will retract my "assassins" label as they were involved in many sorts of covert operations, however it was the assassination role that seemed to birth the need for the "ninja." Intelligence and information gathering personnel have existed since the time of Sun Tzu so I inferred that it was the taboo and honourless act of assassination that garnered the need for them as a whole (even though their skills were many and varied far beyond that)
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339604 - 07/03/07 09:38 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Tzu was chinese. Ninja were in Japan. different country, different military needs and development.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#339605 - 07/03/07 11:21 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Tzu was chinese. Ninja were in Japan.



And where's your sources?

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339606 - 07/03/07 11:24 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

And where's your sources?




in my fridge, next to the mustard
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#339607 - 07/03/07 11:37 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Got ham and sausage?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339608 - 07/03/07 02:56 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Got ham and sausage?

-Taison out




The day I discuss my sausage with a young man on the internet is the day I burn my computer and go into therapy
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#339609 - 07/03/07 10:02 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Man, what the. . .

Ok, I am speechless. I'll just pretend I didn't open my mouth and say anything. Forget the fridge and all. *Note to self, never try to be a smart arse, cuz Cord will make a fool of you*

Back to the topic.

Who ever talked about Sun Tzu; where's your sources.

And I'm not talking about sauces.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339610 - 07/04/07 02:31 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Arguing about N!Nj4$ is t3h $7uP!Š

Actually, I'm proud of myself, having not participated in this thread so far.

But I will tell a Ninja joke. Ready? Okay!

*******************************************

How many Ninja does it take to change a lightbulb?



Answer: You'll never know, but it will always get done!

*Not that it matters, since Ninjaz don't need light!!!

- ^_^

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#339611 - 07/04/07 02:57 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Jim_Judy]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Answer: You'll never know, but it will always get done!




And where's your sources?

-Taison
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339612 - 07/04/07 03:13 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Taison]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

Answer: You'll never know, but it will always get done!




And where's your sources?

-Taison




I Asked A Ninja




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#339613 - 07/04/07 10:38 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
I didn't say that Sun Tzu WASN'T chinese. Of course he was. What I DID say was the the skills of information gathering and stealthful reconnoiter personnel have been around since the days of early china and Sun Tzu. Not sure what point you were trying to make there. (maybe I am just a thickie, but I just don't see it) And yes, ninja were chinese YOU GET A COOKIE!!! lol (It is widely accepted that ninja were japanese in origin. if sources are needed then I can requote the previous historians who all assert this to be true)
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339614 - 07/04/07 10:43 AM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
groundfighter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Petawawa, Ontario, Canada
The sources for Sun Tzu being chinese? Refer to the gutenburg project and Dr Lionel Giles.
J
_________________________
train how you fight, fight to live.

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#339615 - 07/04/07 06:28 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: groundfighter]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I didn't say that Sun Tzu WASN'T chinese. Of course he was. What I DID say was the the skills of information gathering and stealthful reconnoiter personnel have been around since the days of early china and Sun Tzu. Not sure what point you were trying to make there.




The point i was making was that chinese and japanese military development were completely seperate processes, so the fact that Chinese utilised espionage at an earlier stage than records of Japanese ninjutsu, does not offer any clear indication that it occurred in Japan in a parallel time line by default.
The chinese were ahead of the game on many levels (gunpowder anyone?)Just because one culture does something in year 'X' doesnt mean that every other culture knows about it at the same time.
when you understand my point, give yourself a cookie
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#339616 - 07/04/07 07:50 PM Re: The Ninja Mindset in the teenage world. [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Hey, I understand that.

I like Oreos....

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