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#339497 - 05/04/07 05:29 PM Judo Clinch sucks by default
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
In most convos on the net people talk about 'closing the gap' and w/e and how this is done and almost 'presume' once your clinched you wont get hit. From what ive seen most non jacket based clinches seem to be like a 'hug' so yes theres little space to hit with force (maybe im wrong?) (for the inexperienced at least).

But as most of you know I'm sure the default Judo clinch is right hand on their chest left on their sleve. Leaving one arm free....

Just trying to get a discusion going here really, I bet ive missed a few big points.

PS: I put this in the MMA section cause I thought you guys would be the best to tackle my 'point' (tho im sure it sucks).
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#339498 - 05/04/07 05:40 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: MiSt]
BuDoc Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
The collar and elbow clinch are just one grip in Judo. There are many others. If you do not know this, you do not know judo. Therefore you are ill qualified to judge that a judo clinch sucks. Therefore you have a flawed supposition to begin your argument. Therfore this thread sucks by default!

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#339499 - 05/04/07 05:42 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: MiSt]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I certainly wouldn't "presume" that I wasn't going to get hit in any clinch, Judo or otherwise. It just makes it more difficult for the opponent to do so. While my Judo experience is minimal (2 or 3 classes, I think), the Judo grip can be used effectively to keep the opponent unbalanced.

As long as they are off-balanced, it will be hard for them to hit you. Please note that ALL of my clinch skills suck, lol.
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#339500 - 05/04/07 05:45 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: MiSt]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
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Quote:

But as most of you know I'm sure the default Judo clinch is right hand on their chest left on their sleve. Leaving one arm free....




If I'm understanding your definition of a Judo clinch, the right hand on the chest is it gripping the gi or is it palm flat as to keep the opponent away? And the left hand on the sleeve I'm also assuming is gripping the gi, right? Wrong? If so I see that the reasoning for doing this is to perform a throw, trip or sweep and is merely a set up for one of these and not actually a clinch ... but I could be wrong. To remain like this to try and get control of an opponent then that would be a lot of space and a non-Judo person would be able to take advantage of this unless the Judo person is very skilled and quick. I have no doubt in the throws of Judo people, I've seen it and have had it done to me during rolling with some.

For myself there are a few clinches that I see and use with one having both hands behind your opponents head such as in the Muay Thai clinch as now your are delivering knees and if space creates itself to release one hand and hold their head in place while delivering an elbow. The second is more a grappling clinch where one hand is behind the head and the other hand is controlling their arm. Your head is against their head and your are close and tight. From here you can maneuver for position or try for the take down by sweeping, tripping or tossing.
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#339501 - 05/04/07 06:26 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: Dereck]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
So Matt and Dereck what you mean is that the clinch in itself does suck (to stop punches) if thats all your doing...but if your offbalancing/triping them this is what stops them punching.

Dereck I thought it was a clinch as your 'clinched' together...

To clarify the grip I mena take a look at these pictures http://www.bestjudo.com/article8.shtml not the clearest I know.
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#339502 - 05/04/07 09:11 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: MiSt]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
MiSt -

I don't know of any static position that affords total protection from strikes. Unless you are 10 feet away.

The clinch is probably better than most, since you can actively control the opponent's balance, and therefore (to a degree) his ability to strike.
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#339503 - 05/04/07 09:31 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: MiSt]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I think what you have discovered is that the rules of Sport Judo make it less than ideal for clinch in MMA if left unmodified.

Keep in mind though, that even though you may see Judoka walking up to each other and simultaneously taking hold of each other's collar and sleeve, that is only training. A good portion of Judo is grip fighting which means that you are fighting to get you grips and keep the other guy from getting his own. When he counters your grip or fights to get his own, he is open to throw or takedown which is the object of the game.

Sport Judo allows you to momentarily grab one side of the collar with both hands as long as you do something with it quick. If you don't, the ref calls matte' and gives you a warning or penalizes you on the score. Sport BJJ has no such restrictions on gripping. You can hold wherever you want for as long as you want, as long as you are fighting.
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#339504 - 05/05/07 05:52 PM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: Fletch1]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I believe Fletch has touched on this well. The Judo clinch is for sport, they don't have to worry about being hit so it is clearly safe to perform while if you are doing grappling or MMA you want to be in as closely as possible eliminating any space between you that a throw could be thrown from. A good clinch will keep them busy from being off balanced and won't necessarily have as good a chance to get a solid punch thrown. Looking at each clinch in the context of where it is being used makes a big difference.
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#339505 - 05/06/07 10:44 AM Re: Judo Clinch sucks by default [Re: Dereck]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
#3 onwards thanks for the replies much appreciated :-)
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