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#339300 - 05/23/07 07:21 PM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Dereck]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

but the war on the field I don't see as a fighter's mentality. Both aggressive but I believe different.






I'll grant they are different and there are people who might excel one and not the other.
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#339301 - 05/23/07 07:30 PM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

No one is concerned because you keep changing your argument everytime it is refuted




Show me where it is refuted? I've seen many people just say I am wrong, or my point is invalid but that is it.

No one has made an argument for the other side, simply saying I am dead wrong is not an argument.

Matt if you disagree with me, fine this stuff is subjective, but don't tell me I am wrong or have been refuted.
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Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#339302 - 05/23/07 08:09 PM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 832
Loc: England
I would have thought Bob Sapp would have had tonnes of training, non stop in fact since he wasn't competing in the NFL and has his own fight team behind him.

I think its a bit far fetched to think that MMA athletes don't have the conditioning of a professional boxer these guys are in amazing shape. Yes there is probably more excellence in boxing but its been around for a lot longer and is much more mainstream and lets forget theres only 2 fists in boxing. Its a much simpler sport and therefore people work on that one thing alone.

Theres much more variables in MMA with the multiple styles after all boxing is part of MMA as is Wrestling, Judo etc. Are these things not Olympic sports? id say theres a high amount good caliber athletes in MMA as well coming from all sorts of backgrounds.

Like mentioned on another thread, knee a boxer, slam him, take him down and pound on him his conditioning wont fare so good.

Maybe you should be asking why they are so good? they practice one thing and one thing only thats boxing or wrestling etc You have all those things in MMA all these styles clash thats why someone like rich Franklin can come in and be good at what he does.

Anyway heres a few thoughts

Pancrase fights could be something stupid like 3 x 10 minute rounds on certain rules.

Jeff Munson is a Pro Boxer just to name one

Chuck Liddell is from a Muay Thai background (Obviously)

People like Fedor, Chuck, Silva are all seen to be at the top of the food chain.
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Back From MMA@Legacy Gym Thailand Currently Bodybuilding and Strength Training

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#339303 - 05/23/07 08:44 PM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Show me where it is refuted? I've seen many people just say I am wrong, or my point is invalid but that is it.

No one has made an argument for the other side, simply saying I am dead wrong is not an argument.

Matt if you disagree with me, fine this stuff is subjective, but don't tell me I am wrong or have been refuted.






Are we reading the same thread? I have quoted you contradicting yourself and provided stats for my side, which you simply ignore. You have provided nothing, except opinion and changing arguments.

Peace out. I'm done here.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#339304 - 05/24/07 03:44 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: MattJ]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
On the conditioning side of things, MMA guys and boxers train completly differently, meaning simply that an MMA guys conditioning routine would consist mainly of high intensity type things because in MMA not only is it punching, kicking, etc but also lifting, throwing, twisting, slamming, pushing, pulling and many other actions you would encounter as an MMA practitioner.
Having this type of conditioning they would fail at a fitness test designed for a boxer, ie- low-moderate intensity simply because their body are not adapted to the requirements for a boxing match.
Boxers would have the same result is the tried and MMA fitness test for the same reason as the MMA guy, it's not that they are inferior athletes but because they are simply not adapted to the requirements of an MMA match, so unless you have some kind of system where you can compare two completly different kinds of conditioning then I don't really know what the argument is about, or atleast what can come out of it
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339305 - 05/24/07 05:24 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Second I have always said "with training" when I was referring to an athlete crossing over to MMA, I never said anyone could walk into the ring with no training and win.


What the... Kimo stop changing your arguments when they get refuted. You said a few pages ago, that a boxer could enter the ring and wipe the floor with MMArtists. Now you say, if they are trained like a MMArtists? WTF? What happened to all that talk about "naturally gifted", "elite athlete"?

Quote:

My point, again, is that he has NO TRAINING, or very little.



Didn't you say, they don't need training because they are 'naturally gifted' 'elite athletes'?

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339306 - 05/24/07 05:35 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Quote:

No one is concerned because you keep changing your argument everytime it is refuted




Show me where it is refuted? I've seen many people just say I am wrong, or my point is invalid but that is it.

No one has made an argument for the other side, simply saying I am dead wrong is not an argument.

Matt if you disagree with me, fine this stuff is subjective, but don't tell me I am wrong or have been refuted.




We've put up stats, facts and even videos. YOU, however, haven't given a thing to prove your points. At all.

Like I said before, all you do is excuses, changing arguments, giving invalid examples and say "you don't understand" or "Yes yes yes".

Quote:

but don't tell me I am wrong or have been refuted.


Err.. You just have been refuted. Owned?

You come to the board, with an argument. Around 10 people with EXPERIENCE in the very arts you try to say "aren't elite", come here, argues your point with valid reasons WITH backup evidence, and you tell us to judge you wrong? Then why did you even bring up the subject in the first place.

Sorry, Kimo. You're just arguing what people said 10 years ago when MMA just started, and those critics are now regretting opening their mouths. Don't be one of them.

Quote:

No one has made an argument for the other side, simply saying I am dead wrong is not an argument.


Err.. Dude, I think with all the counter-points we've made, I can soon publish a book with the topic "Why Kimo is wrong". You're the one that doesn't spend time reading the counter-points, reflect, and just accept the obvious.

Me, I'm too tired to argue today.

I'll argue further tomorrow. Today, I'm going to retire to my chamber with some nice wine.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#339307 - 05/24/07 10:20 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Taison]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Any pro boxer trained in MMA would wipe the mat with the full contact guys of today.




Was the quote that caused all the uproar, I have never said they could win without training.

I don't generally respond to you Taison because you don't have much logic or thoughtfulness in your posts, you posture you call names, but at end of the day you have no idea what you are talking about.

I respect that certain people strongly disagree with me, and I enjoy the debate, but you I do not enjoy because you are rude, arrogant and not even aware of the position of the people you are ranting at.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#339308 - 05/24/07 10:26 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:

I don't generally respond to you Taison because you don't have much logic or thoughtfulness in your posts, you posture you call names, but at end of the day you have no idea what you are talking about.




QFL!
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#339309 - 05/25/07 05:43 AM Re: Floyd Mayweather on MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

don't generally respond to you Taison because you don't have much logic or thoughtfulness in your posts, you posture you call names, but at end of the day you have no idea what you are talking about.


No, you don'r respond to me because everytime, even though I am not able to put things as elegantly like others, I am right, and you're unable to prove otherwise, thus you tend to ignore me by changing the subject.

Quote:

but you I do not enjoy because you are rude, arrogant


I am arrogant? yup, agreed there, unless you get to know me better. Rude? Hmm, don't know, if that's how you interpret me shouting the same things again and again just to be ignored, yeah, then I am rude.

Quote:

and not even aware of the position of the people you are ranting at.


And who may you be oh holy, "I am not able to discuss with". What position are you in? FA.com is based on a community of martial artists who aren't distinquished by rank nor achievement, everyone's able to put their view in here, and you decided to put your opinion, and you're getting sliced into pieces, and then to say "you don't know the position of the people you're ranting at". Honestly, I don't give a slightest who you are, because imo, and from the other posts I've read, you aren't that significant.

Quote:

you don't have much logic or thoughtfulness in your posts,


Oh, says you who don't even argue in a sensible fashion, instead resorts to changing of subject, invalid examples, personal claims of glory, and the usual "You don't understand" "I hang around pros".

FYI, I might be younger than you, but I know pro-boxers that fights in Lumphini and Rajadamnoern, and I rarely claim "I hang out with pros, so you wouldn't know" because frankly, I'm not a prizefighter. You however, seeing as you don't like teaching full-contact sparring, categorize yourself with Pros who fights for a living. You're the one with little to no logic.

Quote:

but you I do not enjoy because you are rude


I don't enjoy your stubborness either, because frankly, I've proven my point enough times to make an encyclopedia cry, along with other member's posts to prove you so wrong, you might end up crying in the shower because your world is disintegrating due to your believes being ripped apart a bunch of forum-members. Feels uncomfortable doesn't it not being on top and teaching, but instead being questioned and told you're wrong.

Another note, English isn't my first language, so if I do seem to be rude sometimes, it mostly accidental, but if someone provokes me enough to start being rude seriously, you'll notice a change.

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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