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#336335 - 02/21/04 04:47 AM ass or hip somehow blocks my range
indomitable Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 2
Loc: CapeTown,SA
Trained as a youngster in Tae Kwon Do for a couple of years. Now somewhat of a freestyle fighter.

Looking to regain the flexibility i once had, and am making progress except in one area. When attempting to side kick or even back kick (mostly the former) with my torso in line with my extended leg (as it should be when side kicking, my ass and hip seems to be stoping my leg from getting any height. This forces me to lean my torso lower to kick higher. What i want to do is improve my sidekick hieght while maintaining a failry upright position in order to see ad be prepared for a counterattack. Is my problem understandable?

My flexibility is good in the groin. how do I stretch to improve in the way i describe?

or is my technique completely off?

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#336336 - 02/21/04 10:51 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
No, your technique is probably not way off. I'm dealing with the same issue now--I trained karate as a teen, and had no problems with flexibility or hip pain. Now training TKD at 30, and my flexibility is not what it was.
Two things:
1) Is your supporting leg in the proper position? Meaning, if your side kicking with your right, is your left foot turned away from your target? I found this positions the hips properly. I've noticed kids, most women, and some very flexible men don't have to do this....but most do.
2) Concentrate on stretching out your hip flexors and glutes. These can become very tight due to lack of traing, and was a major obstacle for me when starting back. months later, and I'm only now starting to regain some flexibility there.

As far as staying upright while kicking high, it can only be done so much. We are actually encouraged to "tilt down" in TKD, but in my previous style of karate we were told to stay upright. As a kid it wasn't an issue, but I'm not sure how the adults got by.
Also, read some articles in the Stretching section here, that are from Thomas Kurz. He talks about hip positioning during high kicks, and explains things much better.
Good Luck!

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#336337 - 02/22/04 01:48 PM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
alan_cooluk Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 138
Loc: boness
I teach tae kwon do and i would like to think of myself as flexible. I am not naturally so however. For kicking i would advise the old standards get those muscles well stretched by doing the splits gettin sum1 to push ur legs apart and pull u forward to open up your hip joints. adn another one is you kneel with your hips right above your knees, your thighs 90 degrees to the floor and well push down, these should help your flexability 4r kiks

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#336338 - 02/22/04 07:03 PM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Alan,
Although I respect the fact that you teach TKD, I have to EXTREMELY disagree with your stretching advice. Having anyone "force" a stretch upon you is dangerous; how do they know what you are feeling? There's many reports of severe injuries due to partner stretching. I'd ask that you please read some of the material in the "reading room" on this site; Kurz makes specific reference to the dangers.
I realize that many schools still utilize partner stretching; some re-teaching needs to happen. Our school uses partner stretching, but the person who is being stretched is %100 in control----at no point is anyone "pushing on their hips" or "pulling them into the stretch".

[This message has been edited by MikeMartial (edited 02-23-2004).]

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#336339 - 02/23/04 05:43 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Also for your kicks make sure you pelvis is in the correct position, i.e. you butt tilted to the rear, if not you are going to get stuck pretty quickly.

As for your streching methods, take a look around, can most of the people who you teach and train with do the splits that have been training for over a year? Can you do the splits and/or kick to head height with no warm up?

If the answer is No to either of these questions then your streching technique is ineffective.

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#336340 - 03/29/04 12:45 PM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
breaker3 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Carmichael CA , U.S.A
How long have you been trying to regain your old form.I'd start off gradually by testing
your own limits.Have you tryed stretching with a partner.It should help you out by going beyond your personal ability.
good luck

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#336341 - 05/05/04 05:11 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
ken harding Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
Never , never get someone to force a stretch. You'll tear the muscles which requires a lot of professional help to put right especially in the case of hamstrings.

Some years ago (back in the dark distant 80's) the teacher at one club I went to advocated having a partner stretch you into side splits so that the hamstring would tear! He said they would then "heal longer". I left that dojo never to return!

Dynamic stretching a la Kurz plus passive in the warm down and leg strenthening exercises on off training days will get you where you need to be. Be prepared to "train within the well of your strength" That is to say listen to your body and don't push the progress too hard and you will make lasting gains. !

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#336342 - 05/05/04 06:46 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Gentlemen, you have this partner and forcing stretch thing a little mixed up. A partner is good to stretch with and him pushing you a little further than you usually stretch is fine. No one is saying force the partners legs until you hear the muscle rip and pop?
You will always know how far you can be pushed without hurting yourself. Mike & Ken we did the partner stretching at the beginning of class for over ten years while I was in Tang Soo and never did I see any injuries. Use to hear a "fart" now and then.
Again.....to each his own.

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#336343 - 05/05/04 07:14 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by schanne:
Gentlemen, you have this partner and forcing stretch thing a little mixed up. A partner is good to stretch with and him pushing you a little further than you usually stretch is fine. No one is saying force the partners legs until you hear the muscle rip and pop?
You will always know how far you can be pushed without hurting yourself. Mike & Ken we did the partner stretching at the beginning of class for over ten years while I was in Tang Soo and never did I see any injuries. Use to hear a "fart" now and then.
Again.....to each his own.
[/QUOTE]

In the end you can reach maximal flexibility without a partner - why bother with a partner, as the partner is neither training or resting so for the partner doing it, it is a waste of time.

You might say to each his own but this is often forced upon students (as per post above) and in the end if the person being streched needs to react to the pain then ask the person to stop, which would probably through expericence do it a little earlier to avoid the pain and therefore the strech becomes less effective anyway.

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#336344 - 10/09/04 10:37 AM Re: ass or hip somehow blocks my range
Anonymous
Unregistered


the reson you find side kick hard is there is a ligament that runs on the outside of your upper thigh near the pelvis.
When we are kids it can be stretched but when you are older you cant, so it takes a combination of dynamic stretchs and static stretching.
but importantly is the pelvis postion you need to lean your upper body slightly forward to tilt the pelvis slightly back so the ligament does not get pinched by the ball joint and the socket, it sounds complicated it it takes time but it worked for me in addition strengh work in the kicking muscle helps, side splits alone dont help.Also look beyond MA and try the strecthing that gymnast's and dancers do

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