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#336110 - 05/19/03 09:21 PM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
Kunoichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Salem, NH 03079
And if you are in Paris and want to see the benefits of conditioning - please look up Takemi Sensei. Now over 50-years old but still and incredible martial artist. His fighting record stands on it's own...
http://uechiryukenyukai.free.fr/Videos.html

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#336111 - 05/20/03 03:22 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
But what a waste of 10 - 15 mins every training session.

It's absurd to condition, there is no point, why not spar heavily for 10 - 15 mins every training session, you will get all the conditioning you need plus you will be doing something usefull.

The reason why it was disgarded was because it serves no purpose, it is just a tradition, its a bit like taking a bow, it won't help your art (Ok, we still bow at our kickboxing class but in the end it takes a second and doesn't cause either party damage).

Still I think you are missing the main point and that is YOU CAN'T STRENTHEN MUSCLES BY HITTING THEM!!! why not embark on exercise that will increase strength and endurance and speed, I guarantee you will be leagues ahead of the people who just hit each other.

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#336112 - 05/20/03 03:25 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kunoichi:
And if you are in Paris and want to see the benefits of conditioning - please look up Takemi Sensei. Now over 50-years old but still and incredible martial artist. His fighting record stands on it's own...
http://uechiryukenyukai.free.fr/Videos.html
[/QUOTE]

Kash Gill (http://www.kashtheflash.com/) has had around 80 fights, won most of them, has 4 world titles (real ones) and has fought Thai, Kickboxing and full contact freestyle.

He doens't waste his time getting people to hit him.

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#336113 - 05/20/03 08:08 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
Kunoichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Salem, NH 03079
Well we all have a right to disagree with whatever training methods are and aren't now don't we? I am not the type of person who would light my way with a candle if I had a flashlight but there are some time-tested methods that have been around for centuries and are worth exploring.

If nothing else I hope the student has learned from my posts that his friend and instructor was not being abusive but was using legitimate traditional methods to help him to be stronger physically and mentally.

The last thing I would tell the student of Lau Gar Viking would be to get a lawyer and sue. What a whiney litigious society we have become! This is karate. If you are afraid of getting a bump or a bruise - take a dance class. If you want to do more with your martial arts then sit on a bar stool and talk to your mates about karate, I would tell him, "RUB IT OUT, SUCK IT UP, AND KEEP TRAINING!"

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#336114 - 05/20/03 09:16 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
If I get a broken nose, a black eye or any injury through sparring or an accident in training, fair game I know what I am letting myself in for.

If an instructor causes me serious damage because of using methods that have no scientific or medical reasoning behind it (except for - 'it's been done for centuries' and well we teach the 'old school' way) I think that is incompetent. I don't care about money, I would just want that instructor to stop teaching before they really hurt someone.

Remember these techniques were developed way before proper understanding of the mechanics of the human body were discovered, they have legitimate place in Martial Arts history, but that is where they should stay.

To be honest I think if the UK government were aware that these practices were wide spread they would probably ban it.

Leave this stuff to the high level Chi Kung practitioners - at least they know what they are letting themselves in for and have the experience to make an informed choice.

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#336115 - 05/20/03 09:22 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kunoichi:

If nothing else I hope the student has learned from my posts that his friend and instructor was not being abusive but was using legitimate traditional methods to help him to be stronger physically and mentally.
[/QUOTE]

If that is not abuse, what is?

This is like the spare the rod spoil the child BS.

As for strenth:
Mental strenth - probably yes
Physical - No way

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#336116 - 05/20/03 12:37 PM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kunoichi:
I am not the type of person who would light my way with a candle if I had a flashlight but there are some time-tested methods that have been around for centuries and are worth exploring.B][/QUOTE]

I look forward to you arriving at hospital for major surgery and the doctor handing you a bottle of whiskey and a stick to bite on.

Good Luck
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

JohnL

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#336117 - 05/21/03 05:11 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
JohnL:

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#336118 - 05/21/03 08:29 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
Kunoichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Salem, NH 03079
All students report bruising, on first starting body conditioning. This soon lessens and usually disappears within six months. Severe bruising is a sign of over vigorous application, if it continues with a lower intensity of conditioning bruising needs to be investigated as it could be indicative of blood or other medical disorders. The bruising appears to be more common in students of poor physical condition and weak muscle tone. Younger students frequently achieve conditioning more quickly. Once it has been achieved, conditioning seems to last for a period of years after the cessation of active training. The muscle tone and resistance to depression in actively conditioned areas appears to be very high. There is no sign of obvious damage and no changes in skin texture or coloration were observable.

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#336119 - 05/21/03 09:44 AM Re: Burst Blood Vessel in leg
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
In the end you will be damaging the epidermis, dermis etc of the skin which can cause pain later on - I don't know much about it, as I read it some time ago.

In the end, what is the point, even if I can't change your mind that it is bad for you, surely you could be doing other, more effective training.

I know I would think I would get more out of focus mits for 10 mins than being wacked by someone.

Anyway, I can see I'm flogging a dead horse on this, so I think all has been said that is going to be said.

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