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#335986 - 07/30/01 09:18 PM Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Brewer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 468
Loc: Arizona,U.S.
Hello,
Yoga stretching has always been known to be a type of slow and methodical way of achieving flexibility.To me it's probably one of the best and most convenient(sp)ways to stretch.
Your Brother in the Arts [IMG]http://bbs.fightingarts.com/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#335987 - 08/27/01 03:39 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Shodan2001 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 6
Loc: Houston, TX
Brewer,
i have to agree with this. i started yoga, specifically to gain some flexibility. And guess what, through consistent yoga-ing (2 times per week) after a month, i could really feel and tell the difference. My mawashi geris (round house kick) have gotten better and my side splits have improved. much props to yoga...guys, it may seeem a bit girly at first but trust me, the results far outweigh all else.
G
It worked.

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#335988 - 01/20/03 05:32 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Jeniko Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 126
Loc: England
I'm currently doing yoga with the flexibility for martial arts in mind, thought i currently have a slight knee straing so im giving it a few days rest. but here hoping [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] someday i will be flexible [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#335989 - 04/19/03 12:00 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I do like yoga, but there are more appropriate ways to stretch for a Martial Artist.

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#335990 - 04/30/03 05:46 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
UKFF, anything specific you would suggest? I tried yoga for a little while, but I just got frustrated with the mystic meditation side of things (as well as the fact that everyone else seemed so much more flexible than me!).

-Charlie

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#335991 - 04/30/03 06:01 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
KarateJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 58
Loc: UK
I'd suggest dynamic stretching to improve kicking techniques.

Here's a link to some stuff about it:
http://www.stadion.com/column.html

I've been using this stuff for the last 6 to 8 weeks & have seen a dramatic improvement in my flexability, so much so, people at my dojo have mentioned it. Needless to say I've passed on the info.

Hope it works for you.

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#335992 - 04/30/03 01:14 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fighting Dwarf:
UKFF, anything specific you would suggest? I tried yoga for a little while, but I just got frustrated with the mystic meditation side of things (as well as the fact that everyone else seemed so much more flexible than me!).

-Charlie
[/QUOTE]

If Karate dude hadn't beat me to it, I would say the exact same thing.

Tom Kurz is the best stretching stuff I have ever come across.

Also it deals with other types of stretching as well as dynamic - you want to do splits on chairs? follow KD's link

[This message has been edited by UKfightfreak (edited 04-30-2003).]

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#335993 - 05/03/03 06:44 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Thanks guys, I'll check that out.

-Charlie

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#335994 - 05/14/03 10:33 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Kunoichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Salem, NH 03079
Yoga is an excellent and historically proven method for martial artists to gain flexibility. If you do some research you will find ancient archives depicting warriors training in positions that are precisely this. I was just laughing at some 50's karate advertisements that labeled the 5000-year old sun salutation as "karate calisthetics."
But however you decide to stretch, remember what Superfoot Bill Wallace says, Rule Number 1 is stretching shouldn't hurt. Rule Number 2 is stretching shouldn't hurt and Rule Number 3 is - guess what? Stretching shouldn't hurt!

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#335995 - 05/14/03 10:49 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I see what your getting at, but just because it's old doesn't mean its good.

Yoga is fantastic for well being, for martial arts there are faster (and painless) ways to achieve high flexibility and above all strenth.

Karate uses dynamic techniques therefore it dynamic stretching is needed.

Yoga uses static techniques - you see the immediate problem?

Static and dynamic are two different things, really a martial artist could go through an entire career without performing one static stretch.

All a martial artist needs is dynamic stretching, really.

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#335996 - 05/14/03 10:54 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
I'm afraid i've got to disagree. Iyenga Yoga is VERY dynamic. Even in Hatha Yoga there is dynamic stretching - Salutation to the sun - for example.

Personally I think yoga - practiced properly and well under good instruction is invaluable for flexibiltiy and overall body control, to say nothing of other benefits.

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#335997 - 05/14/03 03:14 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I agree, the benefits of yoga are tremendous and I do take your point about the fact there is dynamic movements in Yoga. But I would rather spend my time training in Martial Arts than in a Yoga class as I am a Martial Artist.

This in mind, the 5 mins I dedicate in the morning, and 5 mins at the start and end of each session saves me a lot of time.

And with even this little amount of time invested I can still perform feats of flexibility that can compete or beat most yoga practitioners - and they spend much longer achieving it.

I think its about efficiency, If I wasn't a martial artist, I probably would practice yoga and pilates, as I am a martial artist I can achieve the flexibility and overall body control you speak of through other, faster methods that will add more value to my Martial arts training.

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#335998 - 05/14/03 08:58 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
ishinnick Offline
Member

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 182
Loc: Ontario, Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UKfightfreak:
I see what your getting at, but just because it's old doesn't mean its good.

Yoga is fantastic for well being, for martial arts there are faster (and painless) ways to achieve high flexibility and above all strenth.

Karate uses dynamic techniques therefore it dynamic stretching is needed.

Yoga uses static techniques - you see the immediate problem?

Static and dynamic are two different things, really a martial artist could go through an entire career without performing one static stretch.

All a martial artist needs is dynamic stretching, really.
[/QUOTE]

I wish my Senseis felt like this !!

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#335999 - 05/15/03 03:24 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ishinnick:
I wish my Senseis felt like this !!

[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's your job to tell them.

If you are performing static stretches before dynamic exercises it could cause you more harm than good.

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#336000 - 05/15/03 12:58 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Kunoichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Salem, NH 03079
Yes Yoseikan! You demonstrate an understanding of what yoga is and isn't! Anyone who thinks yoga is only static stretching needs to TRY an Ashtanga and Kundalini class! The links to our martial roots is very evident.

Perhaps I did not explain myself thoroughly. Ancient texts depict warriors not only doing yoga but swimming, running, and fighting. Now why would a fighter want to do all this "cross training" 5000 years ago? For the same reason they do so today. To be better balanced and efficient athletes.

I now teach what I call a 20-20-20 program in gyms that consists of 20-minutes of karate, 20 minutes of weight training and the last 20-minutes of yoga practice. How do you think I came up with this commercially successful idea? It's important to keep an open mind, try different things, find what works for you and add them to your tool box.

I trained for over 20-years in martial arts and under wonderful instructors like Superfoot but still I was amazed at how yoga enhanced my martial arts practice. It not only offers the great gift of increased flexibility but breathing, centering and focus as well. Try it! You won't just find us sitting in a lotus position chanting om!

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#336001 - 05/17/03 09:47 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I practised yoga for 18 months and really, really enjoyed it.

But for my Martial Arts, it just didn't have any real value for the amount of effort I was putting in.

If I had more time I probably would have carried on, but Martial arts is more the priority for me.

I gained the flexibility and strength required from weights and Kurz's method of stretching. (I gained more strength and flexibility in a month than 18 months of Yoga). So if you have all the time in the world, or you train full time, maybe Yoga will suit you. For me, where I am not time rich - I have to prioritise, from that comes what outputs I get from my inputs - Yoga just doesn't have the output.

I have tried different styles and classes, I've done a little pilates and have tried many different things. I have an open mind, in fact that is probably why I am as flexibile as I am, because I didn't just sit and listen to my Sensei in my Karate class regarding stretching.

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#336002 - 06/12/03 03:17 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
labRatBioMajor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 54
I think the most important thing about effective stretching is to stretch many muscle groups in many ways.

I think an important question is: Is my stretching style sufficient?

If you use only Yoga techniques, you may want to consider modified versions of stretching techniques from many other sources. If you do not use many /any Yoga techniques, I highly recommend them, if only for a five minute meditation time before or during your workout/stretch.

Yoga is not only for wusses -- it'll be what you make of it. choose your own speed, challenge, and depth of concentration.

-LK

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#336003 - 06/14/03 09:10 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by labRatBioMajor:
I think the most important thing about effective stretching is to stretch many muscle groups in many ways.

I think an important question is: Is my stretching style sufficient?

If you use only Yoga techniques, you may want to consider modified versions of stretching techniques from many other sources. If you do not use many /any Yoga techniques, I highly recommend them, if only for a five minute meditation time before or during your workout/stretch.

Yoga is not only for wusses -- it'll be what you make of it. choose your own speed, challenge, and depth of concentration.

-LK
[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing the main point that there are several differnt types of stretching, Dynamic, Isometric, static passive, static active, PNF and others.

With stretching the most important thing is doing them at the right time in the right sequence etc.

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#336004 - 12/19/03 05:52 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
UKfightfreak, your knowledge and opinion are well recieved! As a newcomer here, I can tell I'll be watching your posts closely, thank you.
I do have to say I've been thinking about yoga for quite a while, and more recently since I've entered back into the martial arts. Outside of the flexibility-related aspect of yoga, look at it's long term prectitioners. They all look amazingly young for their age, and are in vibrant health. I remember standing in line at the grocery store, admiring the backside of the woman in front of me. I was about 17 at the time. When she turned so I could see her face, it turned out to be a local yoga instructor, who was in her 60's!!! I was a bit surprised, to say the least.

That aside, yes, it doesn't seem masculine, but I'm seriously considering it, specifically for the flexibility and relaxation/stres release.

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#336005 - 12/21/03 08:28 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
For well being, and for health I would recommend Yoga - but if you are interested in Yoga purely to further your flexibility for Martial Arts, there are much more effective, and sport specific ways (and a lot quicker too!)

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#336006 - 02/16/04 07:50 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
aerodiver Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Huntsville AL
Well I am about to start Yoga because after bieng out of the arts for a few years I am finally getting to get back to doing what I love....taijutsu. Any pointers from those of you who have had sucess with it to help regain flexability.


Aerodiver

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#336007 - 02/16/04 06:05 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
MikeMartial Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 767
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Check out the reading material on dynamic stretching...I can't emphasize how much it'll help, especially if you're just getting back into martial arts.

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#336008 - 05/30/04 11:01 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hummmmngh...

Don't suppose you've ever heard of a fellow named Gogen Yamaguchi have you? (Might know the man better by his nickname "the Cat"?)

The sandskrit <sp.?> concept "Yoga" means unity. It is identical to the unity which most martial artists strive. If five minutes is the TOTAL amount of time you spend at the beginning and then at the end of your practices on stretching... you must be very young indeed.

Having day jobs, most of us spend lots of time in positions which are not great for health, and rarely promote flexability, suppleness. Even on good days, most it takes at minimum that long to realize whatever emotions & thoughts you drag into practice with you. Then some time to remove them, and get into the body, and what we are asking it to do.

However setting that aside for a moment... lets ask a better question... ok, lets pretend you have "mastered" the physical aspects of what you do. You are in the prime of physical condition, and approaching your 40's or heaven forbid, being older than that...?

What exactly are you going to work on for the next 3-5 decades for which you are alive
and able to move? What will you spend your time examining, exploring... ? What do you do when you've figured out your physical aspects? What do you practice & study then?

Practices like Hatha Yoga, (much less any of the less well known kinds of Yoga in the West) will provide a simpler tool to get there... and having no partner is fundamental aspect of it. Just us looking inward...

<Easy shrug>

Jeff

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#336009 - 07/03/04 02:48 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE] Rule Number 1 is stretching shouldn't hurt. Rule Number 2 is stretching shouldn't hurt and Rule Number 3 is - guess what? Stretching shouldn't hurt![/QUOTE]

I disagree Kunoichi

The Yoga I have practiced is Iyengar Yoga. Iyengar Yoga is basically Classical Yoga slightly modified...it's the real deal, the physical art Indian Yogi's have been praticing for many thousands of years.

and it hurts, oh brother, does it hurt. In Iyengar Yoga we are taught to play with the pain barrier in our stretching...to let ourselves approach it without falling over the edge into genuine agony and damage of muscles.

not all stretches are painful, but when tackling big problem areas where blockages often build up, like knees, hips, upper back, and shoulders, it's an unavoidable necessity.

The most important thing to remember with all stretching, not just painful stretching, is to always remain in control of the posture. Never rock back and forth, never initiate movement unless you are moving into a new posture. Let the body's natural breathing action gently oscillate the body in and out of the stretch.

Yoga is also truly amazing for strength building as well. The "mother of all postures", the shoulder stand, is incredible for engaging every muscle in your body simultaneously and making them do work. It's fantastic for your core strength, truly fantastic, because not only does it develop muscle strength it also balances and encourages symmetry. All the muscles running alongside the spine get a tone and are encouraged to work together more equally.

Iíve been doing Yoga for only a few years, not as regularly as I would like to, but already I have noticed a huge increase in my core strength and speed. My breathing muscles are much much stronger and Iím much faster because of it. Imo this is because Yoga focuses very effectively on the internal core of the body.

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#336010 - 07/16/04 01:53 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really like this yoga. It has really some people I know , and my, flexibilty alot. And, among other things, intense mental vibration energy, awake dreams, and ability to meditate while in discomfort and not notice the discomfort just focusing on meditation instead.
www.yoga-tibet.com
www.atlantis.to

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#336011 - 08/10/04 06:35 PM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello UKfightfreak:

<<I practised yoga for 18 months and really, really enjoyed it.

Imagine if you had only practiced you particular martial art for 18 months? Unfortunate you chose to give it up so soon. My suspiction is the instruction given might not have been dynamic enough, for you. But like others who study Hatha Yoga (the postures/ "kata" of yoga) I have found it very enjoyable and beneficial as well. But I've been forunate to study largely w/ 20+ year teachers of the Iyengar lineage.

Jeff

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#336012 - 08/12/04 07:55 AM Re: Yoga ,Slow and Methodical Stretching
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ronin1966:
Hello UKfightfreak:

<<I practised yoga for 18 months and really, really enjoyed it.

Imagine if you had only practiced you particular martial art for 18 months? Unfortunate you chose to give it up so soon. My suspiction is the instruction given might not have been dynamic enough, for you. But like others who study Hatha Yoga (the postures/ "kata" of yoga) I have found it very enjoyable and beneficial as well. But I've been forunate to study largely w/ 20+ year teachers of the Iyengar lineage.

Jeff
[/QUOTE]

At no point am I condeming yoga or passing an opinion on it, as you say I only did it for 18 months but I did not do it for the stretching aspect.

I am merely stating that for a Martial Artist there are more effective and less time consuming methods of reaching maximal flexibility, as sport specific training for kicking is different than the goals of Yoga.

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