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#335858 - 04/20/07 09:30 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: Victor Smith]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Then to step it up for the most flexible of weapons, try rope dart or meteor hammer.
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#335859 - 04/22/07 08:17 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: WuXing]
18lohans Offline

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321

I don't really know a lot about the chain whip. I only learned the basics, and never spent the time to actually get good at it. I think that there are only so many ways to change up the spins of the whip, so any form is going to look very've got the arm/elbow change, the shoulder change, the foot/leg change, the neck change. wrapping it around the body and unwinding it, shooting it off the foot or the elbow. blocking with the whip held at both ends, and spinning from the middle with both ends whipping around (not sure how effective that one is, but it's in there). Wushu throws in more acrobatics, like Victor says. The traditional forms would focus more on generating power with the whip, and practicing its methods of attack and defense, I'd think. Of course, I 'm not sure where the butterfly kicks and ground moves come in, but they're in every demonstration of any chainwhip form I've ever seen. Of course, I'm not an expert anyways.

As for catching it, seeing that guy do it makes it look possible *lol*...when you first mentioned it, I thought of the movie Iron Monkey, where it shoots back into his hand horizontally *lol*. I depends on how many sections of whip you have, too. when I do it, I toss it up like the guy in the video did, and catch the tip, then toss up the rest and sort of fold it in half, and then toss the rest into my hand. with nine sections it seems to work out that way. I think that way is just a shortcut for those who haven't mastered the weapon enough to do it all at once.

three section staff is more painful than the chainwhip. It's a "soft" weapon that's really hard when it hits you in the head. (remember the fight in Fearless, where the Japanese guy ends up with the three section, and smacks himself? *lol* we joke that the most effective way to defeat an attacker is to give him your three section and let him knock himself out)
I've practiced with it more than the chainwhip, enough that I don't clobber myself most of the time. I'm a wimp, though, and got a rattan one with ball bearing chain links really, I'm never going to fight with this thing, it's practice is more for coordination and dexterity.

Some good points again. Looking at some of the vids again, I guess power and intend, as mentioned before in the thread, make the difference. And it's true... only so many ways to move this chain around, so not surprised that modern wushu's version looks similar.

I have seen iron monkey before and yes... it would be rather impressive if someone could nicely fold back the chain horizontally multiple times like that.

3-section sounds really fun. I hope to learn it someday. Most I've done with it was try to spin it around. Must say it was rather painful on my head and legs. I thought it'd be easier to control than a chain whip because it has less joints, but I was quite wrong.

But yes, I doubt either weapon would be my first choice in a brawl, or war (had I lived in ancient times). But it has made my other weapons better. My qi nah has benefited a lot from chain whip training, somehow.
"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

#335860 - 04/22/07 08:22 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: Victor Smith]
18lohans Offline

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
oh yes! 36th chamber of shaolin was definitely worth the watch. That movie always finds its way to re-motivate me whenever I'm either stuck or uninspired.

rope dart/meteor hammer looks impressive. Rope dart was actually the first weapon I've ever seen, performed live. I've heard different opinions as far as it being a step up/down from chain whip. Thoughts?
"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

#335861 - 04/23/07 03:15 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia

I've heard different opinions as far as it being a step up/down from chain whip. Thoughts?

I'd say one step up. Not that I have tried any of them, but in France a fair number of schools will teach you the chain-whip, while only one master in the whole country teaches the rope-dart.

That rare dude happens to be my instructor.

#335862 - 04/23/07 09:39 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
WuXing Offline

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
It might be considered a "step up" because it is the most flexible of weapons. I think in terms of learning it, it may be a little easier on the body. In that documentary Victor posted a clip of, they say that more kung fu students get injured learning the chain whip than any other weapon. The only reaon I haven't stuck the tip into my own head is because I wrapped it with some foam when I started learning it *lol*

#335863 - 04/30/07 08:39 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
northstar Offline

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 40
18lohans - greetings and respect.

I chanced upon this thread accidentally -- I'm familiar with a few chain whip techniques that I have been fortunate to have been shown but was looking for something more (haven't found anything online though!).

As far as height (while swinging the chain) goes, you want to stay properly squatted. More power, stability and allows for better body turning/movement. This is the same principle as doing the figure 8 when holding the end of a staff.

As far as snatching the chain back into your hand ... leave it to the movies

I love the section whip, have just started practising with it recently again. How's your practise going ?

One method - holding and shooting.
Hold the handle

#335864 - 04/30/07 02:12 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: northstar]
18lohans Offline

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
Thanks for the reply, northstar.

Properly squatted, as in stances you would do for empty hand forms? Because I personally find the chain to be kind of long for my usual stances, which would require me to swing the chain with my hand above my head.

So far I've managed to somewhat collect the chain in my hand at the end, just to finish the form. I wonder how nicely the guys in the videos out there can fold it back... What I'm doing right now is definitely not a functional movement though (like the one in Iron Monkey).

Practice with the chain whip is a lot of fun, however, it can be equally painful. I would like to have at least decent form with this weapon, so I guess I better suck it up until I cna stop hitting myself.
"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

#335865 - 05/01/07 07:34 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
northstar Offline

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 40
18 lohans - you're welcome.

Are you into it for traditional/practical/applicable or are you more into the contemporary performance side ?

Traditionally, or practically if you will, don't use your forward or gong stance when doing 'figure eights'. Squat low, back straight, hips tucked in and walk by shifting your weight from leg to leg and simply walking forward or backward.

Can you shoot it ? What other moves can you do ?

#335866 - 05/01/07 12:25 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: northstar]
18lohans Offline

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
I'm definitely more into the traditional side. But this is not to say I don't enjoy performance wushu. Some of the stuff in there, specially for chain whip is quite impressive and entertaining.

So far I've only worked on the form. Shooting, from what I understand is more on the application side. I guess it'll be a while before I get to learn how to apply the whip. So for closest to shooting would be the release movement in the beginning on the form. How do you practice shooting? Is it basically the release, and then the pull back?

Other moves include your typical direction changes with the wrist, elbow, neck, shoulder, leg, etc. Then there are a few stoping movements and turns.

I'd be interested in heaing more of your chain whip applications.
"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

#335867 - 05/02/07 05:16 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: Victor Smith]
northstar Offline

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 40
I find shooting quite simple; hold the handle in your hand but only with your little to middle finger.

Hold the rest of the whip wrapped up with your thumb and index finger.

You can be quite discreet while it is held like this too. While standing side on to someone, you can hold it on your other side hidden behind your body.

To 'shoot' it, simply toss or throw your arm out and release the chain whip at the same time (while holding onto the handle of course), just follow the kinetics.

Not difficult to shoot it accurately as it should fly out in the direction which you 'strike' at.

I used to hang targets and would sometimes throw stuff into the air and hit it. When you've got the accuracy, start practising with more power... meaning you have to have a decently balanced rope dart. Wushu ones are quite light but imbalanced (the head and the chain are too similiar in weight -- though this does make it less painful when you strike).

Not too hard to make one, though a good one to practise accuracy, power and precision (the angle the blade enters/cuts at) is to use a knife -- get an knife with an eyelet and tie an appropriate rope through it and use this as a rope dart/chain whip to practise with. Cardboard boxes make great targets, if you are throwing the knife with all your power and it doesn't stick into the box, then you're doing something wrong.

I'm hardly an expert and only know a few moves;

changing directions using crescent kicks.

wrapping and releasing with the elbow; good for that extra power and striking/swinging when you have suddenly lost range (if they close in on you, for example).

Ananother very useful move (if space allows) is to swing it overheard, at a 45 degree angle, like a helicopter. You can keep a number of people in check like this.

Remember you can always grab the chain half way and use it like a short whip.

There are a few 'wrapping' and 'tying' techniques for close range combat as well.

Important thing is to keep it tight ! Keeping this in mind, the few years that I've played with the section whip I've never hit myself.

The figure eight is without doubt the signature move. Swing fast and heavy, overhand and underhand. Aim to hit with the tip or close to it, that natural reaction is to block it and recieve the heavy tip that doesn't stop swinging.

If it gets deflected or caught, be prepared to pull, kick, let go and change position. Remember that when people grab they are potentially setting themselves up for a throw, lock, etc.

I'm quite fond of the section whip. I don't qualify, but it is definately in my top five weapons (of not only preference but confidence in usage).

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