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#335848 - 04/19/07 05:20 PM chain whip tips?
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
I realized lately, from watching some videos online, that my chain whip skills have a long way to go. To get things started, I was looking for some help on two things for which I never got a clear answer:

1. Are you expected to have your standard good kung fu stances for chain whip, or is it okay to stand high/straighter?

2. Just how in the world do you do that move where the chain whip just nicely folds itself back into your hands??
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"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

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#335849 - 04/19/07 07:00 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Soft weapons are hardest to learn. I'm no good with the chainwhip either. I've got no clue how to fold it up all at once...I've only seen anyone do that in the movies, so it might only be possible by moving the film in reverse *lol* I was taught how to fold up the nine section in three tosses, that's the best I can do.

In our form there weren't a lot of low stances, it's not performed using forward stances or horse stances or anything, mostly natural stance. you're constantly stepping forward and back to keep the whip moving, besides the occassional butterfly kick, and that ground section where you spin it over and under your body.

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#335850 - 04/20/07 10:49 AM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: WuXing]
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
Your form sounds pretty cool. I haven't learned any butterfly kicks or ground sections yet. Here's a video of a more traditional chain whip form. The guy does do buttefly kicks, splits and ground moves. AND he can do the folding move at the end.

Chain Whip

Another thing I noticed is that traditional and modern wushu chain whip forms are rather similar, other than the type of chain used.

Does this mean that there's finally something more fighting oriented in modern wushu, or simply that chain whip is probably not a no-nonsense weapon to begin with?
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"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

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#335851 - 04/20/07 12:08 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
There does not seem to be much difference between traditional and wushu chain whip in technique. Perhaps a little more gymnastics, but there is a whole lot of difference between the chain whip's being used.

The traditional ones are very substantial in weight. The wushu ones are most often toys in comparison, ultra light weight(as are most wushu weapons) to allow greater speed.

Neither would be fun to be hit by, but you have a greater chance surviving the wushu version where the traditional one with more impact behind it will create a larger dent.

Here's a two chain whip form.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s8OKQ1cxyh4&mode=related&search=
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#335852 - 04/20/07 02:02 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: Victor Smith]
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
Cool performance! I hadn't ran into that video of John Su yet.

But I do believe double chain whip is more for performance? The techniques you can do with two chains seem to be a lot less and less effective than with just one chain? Am I right on that?
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"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

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#335853 - 04/20/07 04:02 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I never tried the steel whip myself, my flexible weapons did a bit of 3 section staff though.

If we were talking street effectiveness, one would make the day. The double steel whip is probably to develop advanced movement ablities than for actual usage.

But most of the Chinese weapons stopped for reality long ago, China inventing gun powder.

Likewise, with the upcoming onsought of metal detectors, steel whips will hardly be conceable, as their original intent was.
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#335854 - 04/20/07 05:13 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: Victor Smith]
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
haha, you make good points. I totally forgot firearms exist. (I really shouldn't, with the Virginia Tech events happening recently and all). How do you like the 3-section staff by the way? Looks like a very fun weapon to work with!

I guess I'm still trying to differentiate, practice and appreciate things for what they are. With modern wushu, that doesn't come easy.

With their weapons, (again, other that the weapon itself), it all seems to be very close to the traditional stuff, except maybe highlighting the cooler looking movements.

Their empty hand forms also seem to be somewhat similar to traditional (once you filter out the extreme moves and all that running around the matt).

I guess in the end, I stick to how they say modern wushu is more of a performance art than fighting, so don't keep high hopes for it to be applicable. Yet, with a lot of the techniques being present.. how can that be? (Maybe I'm missing something here, being that I never tried wushu first hand)

Going back to the chain whip... I guess I just would like to know what's traditional and modern (ie, fighting applicable, for performanc, or simply for training movmeents)

If certain moves are just for looks, then I would like to know. It'll save me from the time and frustration learning applications for a move that basically just looks cool. I do enjoy simply performing and doing forms. But in the end, I owe it to myself to learn combat applications and such... afterall, that's why I chose to go with the traditional route, instead of modern wushu.
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"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

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#335855 - 04/20/07 05:18 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: WuXing]
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
Quote:

I was taught how to fold up the nine section in three tosses, that's the best I can do.





That sounds interesting! never heard of it. could you explain what it is a bit more?

And thanks for the rely regarding stances. I have been using the natural stance for more of the form too. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being lazy or developing a bad habit.

About the folding move... I figured how to get myself on video... now, how do I reverse the video?? sounds challenging too haha
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"Now use head for something other than target!" Still never attacked by trees, 18lohans

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#335856 - 04/20/07 08:32 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: 18lohans]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
I don't really know a lot about the chain whip. I only learned the basics, and never spent the time to actually get good at it. I think that there are only so many ways to change up the spins of the whip, so any form is going to look very similar...you've got the arm/elbow change, the shoulder change, the foot/leg change, the neck change. wrapping it around the body and unwinding it, shooting it off the foot or the elbow. blocking with the whip held at both ends, and spinning from the middle with both ends whipping around (not sure how effective that one is, but it's in there). Wushu throws in more acrobatics, like Victor says. The traditional forms would focus more on generating power with the whip, and practicing its methods of attack and defense, I'd think. Of course, I 'm not sure where the butterfly kicks and ground moves come in, but they're in every demonstration of any chainwhip form I've ever seen. Of course, I'm not an expert anyways.

As for catching it, seeing that guy do it makes it look possible *lol*...when you first mentioned it, I thought of the movie Iron Monkey, where it shoots back into his hand horizontally *lol*. I depends on how many sections of whip you have, too. when I do it, I toss it up like the guy in the video did, and catch the tip, then toss up the rest and sort of fold it in half, and then toss the rest into my hand. with nine sections it seems to work out that way. I think that way is just a shortcut for those who haven't mastered the weapon enough to do it all at once.

three section staff is more painful than the chainwhip. It's a "soft" weapon that's really hard when it hits you in the head. (remember the fight in Fearless, where the Japanese guy ends up with the three section, and smacks himself? *lol* we joke that the most effective way to defeat an attacker is to give him your three section and let him knock himself out)
I've practiced with it more than the chainwhip, enough that I don't clobber myself most of the time. I'm a wimp, though, and got a rattan one with ball bearing chain links really, I'm never going to fight with this thing, it's practice is more for coordination and dexterity.

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#335857 - 04/20/07 09:23 PM Re: chain whip tips? [Re: WuXing]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I studied 3 sectional staff for about a year, but when I moved up to New England about 22 years ago I no longer had anyplace with the space to train. It is a power weapon, probably designed to smash over sheild lines in battle.

And yes it can give you a heck of a KO to the head or the groin (real ouch).

Here is one of the better old kung fu flics that shows a fanciful description of the 3 section staff being created and used. From the 36 Chamber and well worth your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW5U2AVqz1w
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